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To: waverider who wrote (89779)12/10/2000 7:24:03 PM
From: saukriver  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 152472
 
Rick,

You criticize Al Gore for appealing to the Florida Supreme Court, the highest court in the process set forth by the the Florida legislature to resolve contest disputes under the statutes it enacted. Gov. Bush could have stopped the process by not appealing to the USSC.

It does state, however, that (under Article II, Section II):

"Each state shall appoint, in such Manner as the Legislature thereof may direct, a Number of Electors, equal to the whole Number of Senators and Representatives to which the State may be entitled in the Congress..."

That is the issue that you have neglected in your discussion. The Florida legislature has written laws governing the appointment of electors and the process by which elections shall be conducted. And they will be the ultimate democratic body that will be selecting those electors.


Now, you are just getting carried away here. Under Art. II, although the legislature can determine the "Manner," the power to choose eletors is vested in each state. "Each state shall appoint. . . ."

The legislature presumably has broad discretion to determing the Manner (i.e. game of hearts, vote of the people, appointment by the State insurance commissioner, duel, bingo game, etc.) by which the electors are selected. Art II., Section 1 does not say that the legislature can select the electors; that power conferred on the State itself.

If actual selection by the legislature is what the Framers intended, they would have just said that the legislature could choose the electors. Instead it gave them nothing more than the power to determine the "Manner" of choosing electors. Your interpretation would write the word "Manner" out of the Constitution.

Having chosen the "Manner" by which electors for President are to be selected (popular vote, protest procedure set forth in statute, contest procedure set forth in statute, disputes resolved by the Florida courts that are run by the Florida Supreme Court), the FL legislature has already exercised the full extent of its Constitutional authority. The FL legislature cannot--after an election outcome it wishes to ignore--change the Manner for choosing electors after the election.

Your interpretation of Art. II suggests that we could skip the 2004 election and just look at who controls the legislatures after the 2002 election. Or, maybe we just run the campaign in states were no one party control the entire legislature? That won't work. That is not what Art II, Sec. 1 says. It just says that the legislature can determine the "Manner" of choosing the electors; the legislature has no power to actually select the electors (unless of course it prior to the election decides its "Manner" is a vote by the legislature).

Can we possibly get back to Qualcomm where you are on surer footing?

saukriver



To: waverider who wrote (89779)12/10/2000 8:02:58 PM
From: S100  Respond to of 152472
 
OT? <The game is over. Gore needs to concede> Not so fast. Read this first.

For the good of the American people, it is time for Texas Gov. George W. Bush to concede the election.
Governor, you might just as well acknowledge that Vice President Al Gore will never give up, no matter how many times you defeat him. He will hound you, dog you, sue you, sic his lawyers on you, cut you off in traffic, do whatever it takes to make sure that you never wipe your boots on a White House welcome mat.
Quit while you're ahead.
Because, obviously, Al Gore will never yield. He called you to concede, but called you back. He asked for a recount, then for a recount of the recount. He fought the law, and the law won. Yet still he wouldn't go away. If cats have nine lives, Gore's got 10. It's easier getting rid of Count Dracula than this guy.
He just might be unbeatable.
You thought you had him. You thought you tanned his hide, legally, ethically, morally, electorally. You even beat him in Tennessee. If a guy can't carry his own state, how can he carry a country?
Florida was his, yours, too close to call, yours, too close to call, too close to call, yours, too close to call, yours and, eventually, yours. You became the first presidential candidate in history to win a state five times.
But he's the tortoise, you're the hare.
He just keeps plodding along, plodding along. You stand there by the side of the road in Texas, chuckling. You make plans for the future. You make appointments. You've done everything but have "GWB" embroidered on the Lincoln bedroom's bathroom towels.
Every time you look over your shoulder, though, there he is. The Tennessee tortoise, plodding along.

* * *
Day 33, America's election standoff:
Here is a partial chronology of the events of the last month, after the Nov. 7 contest between George W. "Wake Me When I'm President" Bush and his opponent, Al "I Never Promised You a Rose Garden" Gore.
Nov. 8
Gore places a phone call to President-elect Bush, having made the colossal mistake of believing what he sees and hears on TV. A gracious loser, Gore congratulates Bush and vows to do everything in his power to keep our states united.
For an hour, anyway.
That's when he hits the "redial" button and tells the President-elect that he isn't the President-elect after all, so if it's not too much trouble, could I please have my concession back?
George then says something snippy to Al, at which point Al says something snippy to George about sounding snippy, whereupon George says something to Al along the lines of: "If at first you don't concede, try, try again."
And on we go to:
Nov. 9-16
Florida becomes the focus of the nation, for one of those rare times when it isn't because a hurricane is blowing a roof off a Krispy Kreme.
Palm Beach's voters complain that they somehow accidentally voted for Pat Buchanan. Some of them are so old, they once accidentally voted for James Buchanan.
The count is so close, it could come down to absentee ballots. But the absentee ballots are absent. Florida's secretary of state says she can't count ballots that are absent. If only the absentee voters were present, they could hand over their votes to be counted. But they can't. They're absent.
Among these votes are ones coming in from sailors overseas. Unfortunately, these votes apparently are being delivered to Florida by a tuna-fishing trawler or by a Russian submarine. Or else somebody mistook a porthole for a mailbox and dropped them into the sea.

* * *
Nov. 17-30
Gore wants a hand count. Bush likes the machine count. Gore's people want some of the votes counted all of the time. Bush's people prefer that all of the votes be counted some of the time.
Florida's secretary of state feels she has to count all of the votes within 10 days, even if some of the votes won't arrive for 11 days.
Gore deplores a "rush to judgment." Bush feels every vote should be counted, just as long as it's a vote that's already been counted.
Dec. 1-8
Gore's case goes to state circuit court, then to the state Supreme Court. Bush, meanwhile, goes to federal district court, then to the U.S. Supreme Court--which sends the whole shebang back to the state Supreme Court.
The Florida Supreme Court says 9,000 disputed votes must be recounted. Bush says he will have this sent back to the U.S. Supreme Court, which of course might send it right back to the state Supreme Court.
Gov. Bush, don't you get it yet? You are a beaten man.
It's only a matter of time. Al Gore is relentless. If you raise your right hand to take the oath on Inauguration Day, a lawyer will probably stick a restraining order in it.
Give up, George. Call the vice president today and concede.
A big man knows when he's beaten. So go on, show Al Gore who the bigger man is. That'll teach him.

latimes.com