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To: seminole who wrote (82971)	12/28/2000 11:38:45 PM
From: seminole	Respond to of 95453

Slider I saw that chippy little wiener dog comment/bark you made. Damn, I was falling asleep waiting for that V-bottom in gold. Did I miss it while napping? Nibbling at a couple of Bios. Converting my retirement money from FSESX to FSAGX and FGNMX. All the money I make in gold will off-set my loss in bios, right. heheheheee

To: seminole who wrote (82971)	12/28/2000 11:53:25 PM
From: cnyndwllr	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 95453

Richard RE: <<It is hard to get money out before 59 1/2, and expensive after 59 1/2. >> See the site I just posted today. It's really pretty easy, I hope, since I intend to do it this January. <<Lower tax rates in retirement are not likely for those that save and invest for 20+ years. >> Possibly true, but more than compensated for by the freedom of selling without tax consequences and the ability to leverage the amount of money that would have been taken out for taxes, for many years. <<Once these accounts (IRAs, Rollover IRA from pensions, 401k, 403b) together approach or are projected to approach 500K +, you got a tax problem and an estate problem, IMO.>> Why? I'm not familiar with why this would present a tax problem? <<You can't take losses on misguided investments in these accounts.>> True, but wouldn't you trade that for the ability to keep gains in your trading account tax-free until you withdrew the money? <<You pay taxes at your income tax rate rather than the lower capital gains rate. So you convert long term gains into ordinary income.>> True, but you control the amount you withdraw and spread the income over many years into the future, leveraging the gains and reducing the taxable percentage. In the worst of all worlds, you are so successful that you have tremendous income every year for the rest of your life and a corresponding tax burden. Don't forget that there are no payroll taxes, medicare taxes SS taxes etc on this income. <<Unlike stocks in non-retirement accounts, there is no stepped up basis when transferred to your heirs.>> So you only ruin one generation by making life too easy for them. (gg) <<You can't use margin.>> I have a pension and profit sharing plan that I trade with suretrade, online. I filled out their paperwork and can and do trade on margin. I cannot trade options, but I'm too ignorant to do that so it may be a good thing. Other than that drawback, it works for me. Ed

To: seminole who wrote (82971)	12/29/2000 8:46:29 AM
From: kollmhn	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 95453

Richard- Many of your points are correct. Some could use a little adjustment, though. It is not hard to get money out of an IRA before age 59 1/2. It is easily accomplished if you are willing to take the longer of 5 years of equal payments or until such time as you do reach 59 1/2. This is w/o penalty. Secondly, an estate tax problem doesn't come into play until you have a taxable estate. Since the Unified credit is currently $675k, there would be no tax until your estate exceeded that amount. Then the rate starts at 37%. You could put your IRA into a By-Pass Trust (that utilized the $675k Unified Credit)naming your children as heirs but your wife as the lifetime income beneficiary. Then if you left all your other assets directly to your spouse (free of all estate tax due to Marital Credit) you would avoid any taxes. Eventually upon her death, her entire estate would become taxable (except $675k of it because she gets the Unified Credit, as well). IRAs are good vehicles for fixed income investments and other short term gains like those produced by successful traders. Naked options may not be bought or sold in IRAs. Warrants may. Foregoing the long term gain rate in an IRA are as onerous as it seems. The additional tax that will eventually be paid (your tax rate upon distribution minus the 20% gains rate) remains in the IRA until its final distribution (which can be many years depending on your choice of beneficiaries and distribution method selection). That deferral compounds all the while. How an IRA is dealt with is a complex subject. COMPETENT professional advice should be sought.