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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: SecularBull who wrote (120010)12/29/2000 11:55:51 AM
From: one_less  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
I consider any man who has given consideration to an issue of basic rights and freedoms and changed his lifestyle as a result to be a moral man. Very few men or women in history have been willing to go against the status quo, lifestyle, doctrine, or culture they were raised under. Even fewer have taken a leadership roll to advocate for such change.

Is a child who is sheltered and raised by a saint to live a perfect life and who has never been tested with tempation necessarily moral? Hard to say...

When a child is raised to accept the idea that, it is ok to treat other people with less regard than you would have them treat you; and then, through a conscious struggle with the concept of what is right and what is wrong, he rebells against that idea...he is definitely moral. Jefferson is a shining example of morality in human practice.



To: SecularBull who wrote (120010)12/29/2000 3:20:45 PM
From: Johannes Pilch  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
Here is the one-two punch to your doubts about Jefferson. You’ve recently seen them, but here they are again, just for good measure.

Message 15097099
Message 15097678

When juxtaposed to the Confederates, Jefferson is pure excellence and deserves our highest honour along with Washington. They represent what is best in our history.

The Confederacy, on the other hand, represents the worst, and will always remain the bastard child of American history.

The prevailing ideas entertained by [Thomas Jefferson] and most of the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old constitution, were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally, and politically.

It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that, somehow or other in the order of Providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away. This idea, though not incorporated in the constitution, was the prevailing idea at that time....

Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. They rested upon the assumption of the equality of races. This was an error. It was a sandy foundation, and the [U.S.] government built upon it fell when the "storm came and the wind blew."

Our new [Confederate] government is founded upon exactly the opposite idea; its foundations are laid, its cornerstone rests upon the great truth, that the negro is not equal to the white man; that slavery -- subordination to the superior race -- is his natural and normal condition
. [Applause.] (Confederate Vice President, Alexander Stephens, Savannah; Georgia, March 21, 1861)

***

The condition of slavery with us is, in a word, Mr. President, nothing but the form of civil government instituted for a class of people not fit to govern themselves. It is exactly what in every State exists in some form or other. It is just that kind of control which is extended in every northern State over its convicts, its lunatics, its minors, its apprentices. It is but a form of civil government for those who by their nature are not fit to govern themselves. We recognize the fact of the inferiority stamped upon that race of men by the Creator, and from the cradle to the grave, our Government, as a civil institution, marks that inferiority. (Jefferson Davis, in a speech before the U.S. Senate, February 29, 1860)

Now it becomes quite apparent why blacks almost uniformly despise the Confederacy, and they certainly should. Indeed no real American can honour it. True Americans can never read of the Confederacy with unadulterated pride. They will always harbour in their hearts a healthy measure of disgust for it. The Confederacy, because it is founded on ideas exactly opposite those upon which America is founded, will almost naturally be revolting to real Americans.