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Politics : Al Gore vs George Bush: the moderate's perspective -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: jlallen who wrote (9250)1/6/2001 2:34:23 AM
From: mst2000  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 10042
 
Actually, statistically, we have a pretty good idea. Undervotes and overvotes fall into 2 categories -- people who do not intend to vote at all (by not voting, or punching more than once on purpose), and those that intend to vote but don't succeed due to voter error or machinery difficulties. The former are neutral by definition and can be culled out - probably eliminating 50% or more of them (For example, of the 15,000 or so undervotes in Palm, at least 7,500 or more were clearly not intended to be marked in any way - no dimples, no perforations, nothing). The rest, because they primarily involve difficulties in recording the vote that don't discriminate demographically within a single voting district, but are random in the context of mechanical equipment that has problems. As a result, the breakdown will, statistically, tend to follow the vote percentages in the district as a whole (or more accurately, on a precinct by precinct basis). If you assume that the undervotes and overvotes are evenly spread throught the country, then chances are Gore will have over slightly more than 1/2 of the undervotes and overvotes that were intended to be voted, just as he had slightly over 1/2 of the votes that were actually recorded nationally. The problem is the assumption is wrong -- the undervotes are not spread evenly throughout the country - they are concentrated in more populous areas where they use punch ballots and older voting technology that has greater failure rates. In those areas, Gore did much better than Bush. So if anything, it is highly likely that Gore would get well over 1/2 of the 2-3 Million undervotes and overvotes as you put it, plus or minus 1 or 2 percent given the large size of the sample. Of 2.5 Million votes, Bush would have had to have gotten over 60% of the votes to have overcome Gore's national lead.

Remember, the reason Bush fought the recounts in the 3 counties were because they were heavily democratic. The reason he didn't ask for recounts himself, in Duval for example (which voted over 3-2 for Bush), was because the undervotes in Republican counties were much higher in the minority precincts which voted 9 to 1 for Gore.

The fallacy of your entire condescending misread of "goronic logic" is that nobody is saying here that this is normal and applies to everything everywhere. Methods of voting differ within individual states, and all over the Country. This was a very very unusual situation with several counties having anomalously high failure rates -- as a result, it needed to be examined more closely. Fairness to the tens of thusands of voters whose votes were potentially being ignored (and there were at least that many in the 3 counties) dictated that the legally requested recounts take place (perhaps even be expanded over all of the State of Florida even though that is not statutorily required). If these were GOP counties and the situation were reversed, you guys would be besides yourself demanding that the examination of ballots take place to get it right. The GOP essentially argued (all the way to the USSC no less) that we should apply a lower standard of care to the counting of votes in those counties where the problem was greatest than we would in a narrow county council election, because a Presidential election somehow dictates that we use a lower standard of care (at least if Bush is going to win).

Nope, make no mistake about it, Gore beat Bush nationally. And Bush beat Gore 5-4 in the only votes that ended up mattering.

Shameful.