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To: lurqer who wrote (1325)	1/15/2001 1:22:47 PM
From: Clappy	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 104155

He's a nickname story for you. Did you know that Pat Summerall's real name is George? Pat is his nick name. He was an excellent place kicker for for the NY Giants back in the 50's. They gave him the name Pat because it stands for Point After Touchdown (P.A.T.) He was a very consistent straight-on kicker who rarely missed. I never knew this until last week at the Giant game. An "Ol' Timer" needed to borrow some lighter fluid for his grill. When he returned he told me that story and a few others about the when men where men. -Ol'BellyBoyClappy

To: lurqer who wrote (1325)	1/15/2001 4:43:43 PM
From: Sully-	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 104155

My dad told me a lot of stories about Crazy Legs Hirsch..... FWIW, Lou "the toe" Groza was only known to me due to my many years of following NFL football...... perhaps a little ditty about two of sportingnews.com's top 100 NFL players of all time..... #89 on their list.... Start with those Crazy Legs, the long, muscular limbs that appeared to gyrate in six different directions when shifted into warp speed. Elroy Hirsch walked like a duck but ran pass patterns like an awkward young gazelle trying to evade a hungry pursuer. He was quick, elusive and deceptively fast, a deep-threat receiver who terrorized defensive backs for 12 pro seasons. When Crazy Legs turned on the burners, somebody usually got scorched. "Spectacular" and "colorful" are words usually associated with Hirsch, who caught 17 touchdown passes in an outstanding 1951 season for the Los Angeles Rams -- nine of 44 yards or longer. Hirsch's speed was complemented by near-perfect timing and long, thin fingers that could pull in over-the-head throws while he was in full stride. Once the ball was secured, nobody caught Hirsch from behind. The nickname was pinned on a 6-2, 190-pound halfback who displayed elusive running skills as well as susceptibility to injury during his college career and three years with the Chicago Rockets of the All-America Football Conference. Hirsch changed positions in 1950, his second season with the Rams, and became one of the first ends to move outside as a flanker. For seven years he teamed with Tom Fears as one of first great receiver tandems. A blithe spirit who was infectiously happy, intelligent and always ready with a quick quip or putdown, Hirsch helped put the word "bomb" in the NFL dictionary. During his big 1951 season, he averaged 22.7 yards per catch and helped the Rams win a championship, the last in franchise history. His 18.4-yard career average ranks among the best in NFL history and he once caught touchdown passes in 11 straight games (over the 1950 and 1951 seasons), a record since surpassed by Jerry Rice. Hirsch retired in 1957 with 343 catches in nine NFL seasons. ========================================================================= #99 on their list He was known as The Toe, a nickname he lived up to every day for 21 professional seasons. Lou Groza was a place-kicking pioneer who just happened to double as an All-Pro-caliber offensive tackle. He could open up holes for the Cleveland Browns' machine-like offense and then cap a drive with a 40-yard field goal. He represented a distinct point-producing advantage for the Browns in the era of 33-man rosters. Groza was pro football's first great kicker, and his strong right leg and trademark black high-tops left a long-term imprint on the game. He was automatic on extra points and everyone marveled at his accuracy from as far away as midfield. He approached his craft scientifically, working constantly on technique while measuring off precise steps and distances. He became so proficient that Cleveland coach Paul Brown began using him as a fourth-down field-goal option, a huge plus in an era where field goals were not frequently attempted. Groza, who spent his college years fighting in World War II, was part of Brown's master plan when he constructed the Cleveland franchise that would dominate the new All-America Football Conference from 1946-49 and the NFL through much of the 1950s. Not only did the 6-3, 240-pounder give the Browns a kicking-game edge, he contributed as a solid run-blocking tackle for 14 seasons before concentrating strictly on placements. By the time he retired after the 1967 season, Groza held virtually every NFL kicking record and had totaled 1,608 professional points. The personable, always-popular Groza succeeded in the trenches without the warrior mentality of the normal lineman. His secret was technique and coolness under pressure, which was front and center in 1950 when he kicked a 16-yard field goal with 28 seconds remaining to give the Browns a 30-28 victory over the Los Angeles Rams and their first NFL championship. BTW, lot's of my Steelers were on that list :-) Thanks for allowing me to revisit some fond memories lurq & clappy ;-) Ö¿Ö