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To: marginmike who wrote (92327)	1/23/2001 1:03:33 PM
From: Ibexx	Respond to of 152472

Fair enough - your explanation. Please bear in mind, though, that some of the most successful - and creative - entrepreneurs of our time are engineering-trained. Thus the "rigidity" thing is either a thing of the past, or an exception rather than the rule. Ibexx@allsquaredaway.com

To: marginmike who wrote (92327)	1/23/2001 1:09:01 PM
From: limtex	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

mm - Financial Times article on massive delay in UMTS/GPRS etc. MM did you see this article. It sounds like what Dr Jacobs has been saying is coming true. If the article is even reasonably accurate then there is the mother of all problems in Euro telecom land. Did you see the reference to "increases in mobile phone revenues not replacing the drop in revenue from fixed lines"? Are the Euro telcos in serious trouble or what? Stioll I guess they can all sell a small stake to DoCoMo. They'll bail them out provided they agree to use i-mode. The European mobile customers won't have anything better to compare with so they will once again be basking in the assumption that their mobile phone system is the ,ost advanced in the Wolrd......all of them except of course those that go to Asia or the Americas that is...!!!!! Best regards, L

To: marginmike who wrote (92327)	1/23/2001 1:13:09 PM
From: ratan lal	Respond to of 152472

People who study the Arts and liberall fields are tougt there are no bounderies, no answers just more question's. You are absolutely right. Engineers know there is an answer for every 'physical' (nothing esoterical like the existence of god) question or problem and they are trained to go find the answer. The best of them spend their lifetimes finding some answers and when they do, they completely change our understanding of the univers and the way things work till some othe engineer comes along and refines that answer. But they are always on the search.

To: marginmike who wrote (92327)	1/23/2001 1:16:48 PM
From: Win-Lose-Draw	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

but in my experience engineers tend to think in a scientific black or white type of way I'm a design engineer by profession. If I was "mentally rigid" I'd last two hours in this business. Any designer can tell you there are not very many black and white answers to the questions we try and solve. How can there be? If you're out there on that edge, making something new, the only answers that exist are the ones you find for yourself. OTOH, I can think of many, many liberal arts majors who have minds tighter than a funeral drum. The idea that a liberal arts education somehow opens your mind more than a more-technical education is, IMO, nonsense. It doesn't depend on the subject matter, it depends on who is doing the learning and especially on who is doing the teaching.

To: marginmike who wrote (92327)	1/23/2001 2:15:16 PM
From: Dennis O'Bell	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 152472

The renowned french scientist/mathematician Laplace supposedly held the view that the entire universe was a well posed initial value problem! Which wasn't entirely nuts given that real scientific tradition was in its beginnings then, and newtonian classical mechanics had been spectacularly successful in explaining things like the orbits of planets. A classic "if you have a hammer everything looks like a nail" :) But the stereotype opposition between scientists/mathematicians/engineers and the arts wasn't really valid even then much less now, where so many revolutions in thought have taken place we're completely used to it. Everyone who does good work knows that without incertainty, doubt and creativity life would be hopelessly boring, but without scientific/engineering rigor to back things up, ideas would largely remain empty dreams.

To: marginmike who wrote (92327)	1/23/2001 2:22:12 PM
From: tradeyourstocks	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 152472

nothing personal, but your engineering comment shows much ignorance.

To: marginmike who wrote (92327)	1/23/2001 4:52:32 PM
From: waverider	Respond to of 152472

Me here got degrees in Bio, Anthropology, and Drama (I was on the 6 year plan). LOL!!! Now that explains it! Rimbaud

To: marginmike who wrote (92327)	1/24/2001 4:10:34 AM
From: Maurice Winn	Read Replies (4) \| Respond to of 152472

<However if you were educated your whole life that there was a reason for everything in science you would take that view to the greater world. People who study the Arts and liberall fields are tougt there are no bounderies, no answers just more question's. > More's the pity. New Zealand is now run by a swarm of arts people who have little concept of determinism and have no idea that the world operates totally on deterministic principles, which are, for the most part, too complex for our feeble brains to comprehend but we have no choice but to try to penetrate the fog of ignorance in which we are all immersed. But engineers are able to pin down some deterministic photons and make CDMA work. Engineers know that criminals in jail won't commit crimes = another deterministic principle. The arty types think if you give them anger management courses, they'll suddenly turn into tame domestic pets. I don't think there is a single engineer or scientist in the current New Zealand government. Arty types might have great parties, but they won't make a RadioOne system work [or much of anything else for that matter]. Notice how the most successful companies are NOT run by arty dreamers but by Irwin Jacobs, $ill Gates and their ilk. There is indeed a reason for everything. Unfortunately, in governments and the arts world, the reason for much of what happens is that the people doing the running of the world have a very limited attachment to reality and make up fantasies of what SHOULD be because they want it to be, rather than what is. So, we have the NZ government funding magnets on fuel lines to increase fuel consumption and cut pollution. Truly!! I am not joking. We have a thousand wacky ideas every day, with no basis for any rational expectation of success other than wishful thinking. If the arts people would learn that there ARE boundaries, laws of nature and objective reality, such as the edge of a cliff, we might fall off fewer of them. Engineers and scientists learn where the boundaries are, then find ways of getting past them. Hence, QUALCOMM was able to breach the laws of physics and create the magic of mobile CDMA. Other scientists are creating the magic of CDNA [TM] [cyber deoxyribonucleic acid] by which we will reinvent ourselves in the way we WANT to be, not the way the absurd, arbitrary and mindless biological world made us [a kind of smart chimpanzee with less fur, more table manners but plenty of genetic diseases to ensure a difficult life and an early and unpleasant demise for the carriers]. Mqurice PS: I had to bite on that one...you must like fishing...you caught over half a dozen!