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Politics : Formerly About Advanced Micro Devices -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (130750)	1/25/2001 12:32:34 PM
From: tejek	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 1570798

Joe, Your cynicism is remarkable I disagree. I think Joe has a point. Whether or not that point applies fairly to Scott is an open question, I'd usually give someone the benefit of the doubt and not try to say something like that applies to him, but there definitly are people who either pretend to be offended or actually are offended for no good reason and they use this to try to limit debate. Tim, My comments were more than just about Joe's perception that Scott may not be REALLY offended. I was suggesting that there is a NYC/LA paradigm [btw, its not exclusive to those two cities] that believes people can rarely be concerned with the common good; in fact, almost impossible. That its all about their own well being. That people who express strong concern with certain emotional issues like the environment are lying; that they are more concerned with looking good than the state of the environment. I am suggesting that such a cynical view is not always true. Another personal example of what I am talking about is when Epiphrine accused my abstention from the mod thread as a form of subterfuge; that in reality I was less concerned with the issue of freedom of speech and more with the state of my popularity. I was really surprised and had to take stock for a moment....were my stated reasons not real? I think its easy to lose sight of what's real and what isn't. I think its hard to remain idealistic and not become cynical when you become an adult. And I think its harder in certain places than other places. I try to have a mix of idealism along with cynicism with the emphasis on idealism. I believe that when life becomes about being totally ego ecentric, then I don't think its worth living all that much. ted

To: TimF who wrote (130750)	1/25/2001 1:05:17 PM
From: stribe30	Respond to of 1570798

Tim: I am the last person to ever want to stifle debate.. Quite frankly.. my perception is its the right-wing that tend to get uneasy debating about things and do their best either to stifle it or else to throw a redherring into the debate (ie "Thats un-American, and GOD BLESS AMERICA!!! USA! USA!! (insert other jingoism here)) I took issue with Josef sincerely.. not only about the reservation comment.. but also that apparently anyone on the left (or more acccurately, to the "left" of Jozef) who is strongly opposed to what he says must be a parrot who repeats what their ideology tells them.. incapable of free thought... as if the conservatives have a monopoly on this.. if anything I find it the exact opposite.. I find the conservatives and particularly this bunch in the Republican party all parroting the same thing... without anyone breaking the "party" line.. even the so called moderates... and now.,. apparently.. if someone who isnt of the same mind as Jozef isnt parroting things and arent storm-troopers (which ironically enough, is a term associated with right wing squads in South Africa and in Nazi Germany) they are of a "kindergarten mentality",.. I find all of this rather demeaning to a relevant rational debate.. and unnecessary. IF Jozef wants to debate that way.. thats his choice.. but he shouldnt be so surprised when someone takes him to task over it... but you wont find me trying to stifle debate with him.. if anything I'll just quietly withdraw from the fray.. because at that point it isnt worth debating and loses its vigour.