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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (4449)	2/2/2001 4:57:32 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I'd feel better if there were a whole lot less people on the planet, especially when the vast majority live in poverty. Maybe that is elitist, but I'd say from my own experience, living well beats living poorly. Hardship when I've endured it is not preferable to when things are going really well for everyone. Abortion and birth control are definitely our tools against hardship. It isn't about eugenics or some masquerading racism, it is about human dignity. Of course, it is certainly only my view of what is good, but I see people of all races enjoying what I enjoy. I work with Puerto Ricans, Hindus, Moslems, Filipinos, and a host of other people. We all live well and are in a business where it makes things better for people. My principles of the "ideal" are agnostic or personally spiritual; it embraces comfort and efficiency while balancing the needs of the individual.

To: Lane3 who wrote (4449)	2/3/2001 6:22:02 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

OK. That was expected. I'm cool with it. Let me ask you this--are you even a little bit uncomfortable asserting that your truth trumps my truth just because it's yours? If I am to make any decisions I have to base them on what I see as truth. I try to make sure that I will listen to people who have different opinions but in the end my opinions and decisions have to be based on what I see as truth. What if a rapist used as a defence that he believes that he has a right to have sex with any woman that he wants, I would submit that it would be fine to impose mine (and presumably your) version of truth on him, that rape is wrong and should be outlawed. The difference with this and the abortion issue is that the contention that rape is wrong and should be illegal is not controversial. There is consensus on this issue. However it is still imposeing a version of truth on someone when you send him to prison for rape. If you think it is wrong to ever impose your version of truth on someone else then its hard to have any opinion that anything should be illegal. If you think it is ok to impose such a vision of truth if their is a strong consensus of opinion behind it then your position is more consistant. let's say that a series of studies pretty conclusively demonstrates that human population growth will destroy our world within 20 years. That's "massive justification," isn't it? I know it's far fetched, but I'm trying to figure out if there's anything that trumps the protection of fetuses. Would that change your view of abortion? I'll assume as part of arguement that population growth will destroy the world only in 20 years only if a plan to control who gets to reproduce is not implemented and that if it is everything will be just fine. This combination of circumstances is just about imposible but as you said we are only assumeing it for the sake of argument, not asserting that it is actually true. In that case the forced bith control plan might be considered a necessary evil. It would still be evil but I could not oppose its implementation unless I can come up with an alternate solution. Tim