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Pastimes : Pro Choice Action Team -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Dayuhan who wrote (104)	2/6/2001 9:00:39 PM
From: TH	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 948

Steven, "Tell me, since you obviously want the State to compel pregnant women to have children whether they want them or not, do you also think that the state should compel the fathers of those children to provide a decent living for those children, or, if the fathers can't or won't, that the state should provide the decent living?" Hun? When and where did I ever say anything like this? I even go out of my way to point out that I don't engage in debate on this issue. Why? First, you can't win. Its really that simple. I don't fight battles that can't be won. I don't like to nip at the heels and kick the shins. I like to stick the knife right into the heart and twist. I like to see the blood. Understand? Second, I have stated that it is up to the women. Who am I to tell a women what to do with her body? I don't have this right, so I don't participate. There are plenty of others who do feel strongly about it and those are the people that can win this kind of battle. "when the cell starts its little dance of division, well life has begun." Ok Steve, I'll spell it out for you. Then you can waste our time spinning it. The cell I am referring to is on a specific path. That path will be realized, unless something, or someone interferes. That path is a human life. Very different from a cancer cell or a blood cell. My whole point was quite simple. At conception the die is cast and life has begun. Any attempt to define life as starting at some later point is an attempt to provide the spin to support a position. Its quite foolish. I am still waiting for someone to explain to me why or how life starts at some later point. No one has yet. Is life the first breath of O2? Is life self-awareness? Are trees alive? You need to understand my position before you jump on the "I gonna have to school TH again" bandwagon. So far I'm not too impressed. To finish, I will explain my logic on the label of "pro-choice", and why I think it is nothing more than slick marketing. You have to do something to really understand my point. You have to let go of your assumption that I am supporting a point of view. I'm not, and if you really understood my very first post here you would already know that. My whole argument is that the label is wrong. Here is why. Get a coin with heads and tails. Flip it once, twice, or 500 times. You only get one of two possible results (unless the coin lands on its edge). Why is this important? Because there are only two outcomes in this debate. I do not judge if it is wrong for abortion when the mothers life is in danger, nor for rape, nor for simple irresponsibility. Toss in all the sidebars about an unwanted child and how it will have poor quality of life. Forget all that stuff, for at least a few minutes. Lets look at the arguments, or if you prefer, the positions. Pro-lifers believe in life. It should be preserved. A human exists and to make it not exist is to kill it. Pretty simple to me. Pro-choicers claim they are for the free choice. A novel concept and it sounds very good. What does it really mean? It means that each and every person who is pro-choice has already allowed the possibility for the termination of a life. It may not turn out that way, but the acceptance and support for that path is inherent in the selection of that position. Now get out your coin again and flip it. That is exactly what a pro-choicer does. They flip the coin and before they do it, they are prepared to accept the outcome. The difference is the Pro-lifers don't think there should even be a coin, and that is why their spade is a spade and the pro-choicers spade is potentially a shovel. Get it? HAGO TH