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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (5253)	2/9/2001 11:49:18 AM
From: Mac Con Ulaidh	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

I don't see how we have the right to exist, at all. We either exist, or don't. Period. A "right" has nothing to do with it. I'm enjoying this conversation, but finding it hard to follow. If we want the "right" to exist, and to pursue happiness or anything else, we can perhaps create that "right" through our words and deeds, but it does not exist outside of own creation. I have no idea who, if anyone, I'm agreeing with in saying that.

To: Lane3 who wrote (5253)	2/9/2001 11:51:41 AM
From: Solon	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

Solon, we're talking in circles. I can keep that up as long as you like WE might be talking in circles: I am not. I don't acknowledge anyone's right or RIGHT to notions, immoral or otherwise. That just doesn't make any sense to me. If there's a generally accepted right, acting in accordance with it is moral and against it is immoral. Karen, don't make me repost your stuff. When the question of morality was tabled your response was that YOU decide. Now, I may appreciate that your decisions would be respectful and moral ones. However, I also appreciate that the PRINCIPLE that your response embraces does not imply a value judgement that places morality within a context of rational others. Leaving your personal morals out of it; If I lived in a society where "I decide" was the final word in all moral decisions--I would never go unarmed. I can buy into "we have the right to exist because we do" but only, like inertia, until someone else squashes that right like a bug. We can wail all we want that we have the right to continue to exist, but our wails will be silenced by the big "squish." If our wail can be so easily extinguished, it ain't much of a right. Karen, you are stamping your feet instead of thinking. That is not the way to reach consensus. A RIGHT is not immunity to FORCE, POWER, or IMMORALITY. Neither is a "right". Your "rights" are always being squished like bugs. Bush will squash a few; The next President will squash a few. The difference is that when your "rights" are squashed, their justification (the longest knife, the loudest voice) also disappears. When RIGHTS are squished--their justification remains...