Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: epicure who wrote (5538)	2/12/2001 1:24:35 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

X, I'd further add that if a mother is sufficiently unhappy about having the child that she is determined to make what must be such a horrible personal decision as to choose abortion, then surely the child really is not wanted. I'd think if the mother was then forced to have the child, both it and she would be unlikely to be happy... and neither would have a good life. Surely sensible parenting, especially in a world that already has rather too many people, is about having children who are wanted? And part of being a responsible adult in a civilised land, is not forcing others to have children?

To: epicure who wrote (5538)	2/12/2001 3:14:19 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

Birth is the moment when it is no longer legal and ok to kill a child. Simply begging the question helps nobody. The circularity of your response is indicative of the vacuousness of your position in general. The moment of birth is just an arbitrary construct on your part. The real issue is, are unborn children human beings, and should one human being have the right to cause the painful death of another innocent, human being, for any reason they deem fit? Legality is not equivalent to morality. Slavery is/was legal in many countries. Is slavery ok. You basically said it was my right not to have an abortion and yours to, if you wished. That sounds like "don't like slavery? Then don't own one." The Holocaust was perpetrated by a democratically elected government. If morality is determined simply by consensus, why were the Nazi's put on trial? Was it simply because they lost? If fifty-one percent of the population voted to kill all the Jews in America tomorrow would that be alright? The killing of a child five minutes before birth or five minutes afterwards is still the killing of a child. You like to euphemistically dress it up as CHOICE, but the intentional killing of another innocent human being, is, and always will be, murder. Greg

To: epicure who wrote (5538)	2/14/2001 6:53:30 AM
From: long-gone	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

China Guilty of Sickening Human Rights Abuses Amnesty International Tuesday, Feb. 13, 2001 When officials from a township birth control office got hold of Zhou Jiangxiong in May 1998, they hung him upside down, repeatedly whipped and beat him with wooden clubs, burned him with cigarette butts, branded him with soldering irons and ripped his genitals off. The 30-year-old farmer from Hunan province was tortured to death because the officials were trying to make him reveal the whereabouts of his wife, suspected of being pregnant without permission. This is not an isolated incident. Each year many people are tortured to death in China. Torture is widespread and systemic, committed in the full range of state institutions, from police stations to "re-education through labor" camps, as well as in people's homes, workplaces and in public, Amnesty International revealed Monday in a new report on torture in China. Victims of torture can be anyone from criminal suspects, political dissidents, workers and innocent bystanders to officials. "Although the government has said it is committed to fighting torture, investigations rarely bring perpetrators to justice and investigators readily accept official denials," the organization said. This commitment is undermined by government directives during periodic "strike hard" anti-crime campaigns and political crackdowns, such as those against the Falun Gong and alleged "separatists" in Xinjiang Uighur Autonomous Region (XUAR) when officials are given the green light to use every means to achieve quick results. A growing range of officials are being cited as perpetrators of torture: tax and fine collectors, judges, prosecutors, court clerks, village and party leaders and many types of security officials. In 2000, Shenzen media exposed a series of cases where security officials working in businesses had beaten, tortured and even killed customers who complained about prices or were suspected of theft. Many women have been tortured, including being raped and sexually abused, by police who accuse them of prostitution. Police have the power to issue an instant fine on suspected prostitutes and send them and their alleged clients for up to two years' detention for "custody and education." Police detained and tortured women to extract lists of alleged clients to blackmail. Many alleged prostitutes and clients have died under torture. Alleged "vagrants" are also at risk of torture. A woman who arrived on business in Guangzhou in July 1999 had her luggage stolen and was arrested by police who believed she was a mentally ill vagrant. She was gang raped in a hospital for sick, disabled or mentally ill vagrants, and her family had to pay "treatment fees" to have her released. Although she later identified suspects and filed complaints and appeals for compensation, investigations stalled until the case was reported in the media. The torture of political dissidents remains commonplace. In the XUAR and Tibet, few political prisoners escape torture. In July 1999, ethnic Uighur Zulikar Memet denied allegations of separatist activities saying that he had not been tortured to confess. He showed the court signs of torture, including missing fingernails that had been pulled out. There was no investigation. Zulikar Memet was reportedly executed on June 14, 2000. Bogus psychiatric hospitalization is also being used to suppress dissent. Xue Jifeng, a labour activist from Henan Province, was forcibly confined in Xinxiang City Psychiatric Hospital from December 1999 to June 2000 and force-fed drugs. He was released only after agreeing not to participate in politics and to stop "caring about other people's affairs." The Chinese media have played an increasingly important role in exposing cases and contributing to a growing debate on abuse of power by police, loopholes in legal protection and the horrors of certain types of detention. However they never report allegations of torture in "political" cases. "Torture in China remains a major human rights concern. The range of officials resorting to it is expanding, as is the circle of victims. The government has acknowledged for many years that torture is a serious problem but has done little about it. They must now take effective action," Amnesty International said. The report makes several recommendations to the government, including: upholding zero tolerance of torture, exclude from the courts all evidence extracted under torture, ending incommunicado and arbitrary detention, ensuring detainees access to lawyers, family and medical treatment and instituting an effective complaints mechanism. newsmax.com