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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (5632)	2/13/2001 5:52:11 PM
From: MulhollandDrive	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

I think SI Bob has misgivings about the "moderated" format in their current form. I don't think he believed that "moderating people off" threads with differing viewpoints is conducive to educating oneself or provoking thought. That type of censorship of threads is very ill-conceived, imo, is really a public acknowledgement that the basis for the thread premise cannot withstand the scrutiny of the open marketplace of ideas.

To: The Philosopher who wrote (5632)	2/13/2001 6:05:59 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

. I was banned for reasons which ... seem to me partly if not primarily to have to do with the fact that I'm male. I hate to be the first to point this out, but it is possible to be both male and engage in civil and rational conversation, abiding by the rules quite clearly laid out in the thread header... Demonstrate that you can and possibly you'd be allowed back. Until then you're attempting to crash a private party by insisting that 'freedom of speech' upholds your supposed right (RIGHT? <g>) to demean and insult those already present, or their views... Poet has absolute power, and uses it. But she is totally unable to see the disconnect between her abuse of power in this practical setting and her professed liberal principles. ... I am astonished... to find Poet following the same principle ... in a supposed forum for liberal principles. Again, you miss the point. The LWP is NOT a free-for-all... that's here. If you want to post at the LWP, a moderated - i.e., specifically restricted - board, obey the rules. Poet's 'absolute power' is rather sharply limited - to the community she founded and designed. Don't you have that freedom within your own mind? It doesn't make discrimination on things you can't change, either: only on attitudes, principles and beliefs - which in rational people, can be changed. But it specifically isn't a place for open argument. Had it been some homeland taken away from you, then that's a different case. Had you been a resident suddenly subjected to some new law, that's different too. If you were forced to abide there, and then found your freedom restricted, your grief might be understandable. But it was specifically set up as a new venue, infringing from and subtracting from no one's freedom. If you find yourself barred by your actions, then consider those actions first. Incidentally, to work - IMO - 'liberal' freedom implies equality. So each member of a liberal body voluntarily joined respects others rights equally, as his (or her) own are respected. Violate the rules of the body, that you implicitly agreed to respect when you voluntarily joined, and it seems only fair that you lose your own... Lastly, I'd suggest that cyberspace is a new case: from nothing grows community, and it's open to all. If you wish to join some special part of that community, then obey the rules... if you don't wish to do so, you've selected yourself out. But you haven't lost anything you had before, and you still have complete freedom to open your own community and set its rules as you wish [within the TOU <g>]. And unlike newly freed slaves or desperate immigrants, you don't need wealth, land, training, knowledge, skills, resources or even luck to do so, nor do you face any competition that can drive you out of business or bar your customers: it's purely up to you to make your community desirable for others. Good luck. And I'm glad you'll keep campaigning for social justice and the rights of the minorities, because those are worthwhile goals.