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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: TimF who wrote (5844)	2/14/2001 6:00:55 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

but [animals] don't IMO think about abstract philosophical concepts. Third time. Upon what do you base this opinion? I merely asked a question: Do chimps have rights to liberty and life? They probably think so, but we don't. You won't answer the question, but instead introduced both the modifiers "abstract" and "philosophical" as straw men. They add nothing to this discussion of rights or rights as absolutes. It is known that apes are now passing sign language on to their offspring. This is clearly abstraction. I'm still waiting for the bases of your opinions. I'll gladly provide references for anything I'm claiming. This isn't fringe thought or theory. What you are saying about animals not having "ABSTRACT thought" has been known to be false for more than 3 decades. You should remember that 19th century missionaries said similar things about Pacific islanders and African natives. I recommend you watch a popularized science show like Nova or Nature once in a while. It may open your eyes about our animal friends. My parrot got real grumpy if he didn't get out of his cage. He clearly thought it was his right to be out of the cage and was irritated that I didn't respect that. Eventually, we stopped keeping him in a cage because he simply didn't like it. It didn't seem very nice to MAKE him live in a cage if he didn't want to. Parrots are, BTW, one of the other animals that have been shown to have abstract thought.