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Technology Stocks : Intel Corporation (INTC) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Elmer who wrote (127715)	2/17/2001 8:53:32 PM
From: Joe NYC	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 186894

Elmer, There is much confusion here. Intel isn't playing any tricks. Scumbria was confusing tjC with tcase. Intel was specing P4 at 72 deg C case temp while AMD is now specing Athlon at 95C die temp. Actually Intel is specifying the processor case temperature, not case as in chasis temperature. Actually, the only thing that Intel says about the chasis temperature is that Intel recommends that the chasis temperature does not exceed 40 deg C, and if it exceeds 45 deg C, Thermal Monitor becomes active. P4 has the Thermal monitor to slow down the CPU to prevent frying of the CPU when the CPU is under heavy load. What it means is that Intel may sell you an 1.5 GHz processor, but you may or may not be able to ever get full performace out of it, because when you do, the processor may overheat and slow down to 750 MHz. It seems that Intel no longer reports the die temperature, only the processor case temperature, which seems like just another attempt at obfuscation. Anyway, the more you read about the P4, the weaker it looks. Now add the voltage increase just to get the next speed grade, which should have been a routine, but it is proving to be a challenge, the only conclusion I derive is that Intel is again in position of weakness. P4 was supposed to save Intel, but now the new mantra is "wait until Northwood". Joe PS: Here are the documents in question: ftp://download.intel.com/design/Pentium4/datashts/24919802.pdf developer.intel.com Here is what EricRR found: developer.intel.com and his comment about it: Message 15365490

To: Elmer who wrote (127715)	2/18/2001 1:23:17 PM
From: Ali Chen	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 186894

"Intel was specing P4 at 72 deg C case temp while.." Are you saying that the P4 has a very sloppy packaging with lousy thermal resistance? He-he :) "How could Intel lower the tjC while increasing the frequency and voltage? It's a function of the physics, not the datasheet." Intel just did it, in case you didn't notice. TjC is also a function of thermal (mechanical) design, and is a function of the size of an attached heat sink, or whatever cooling technique is _specified_ to keep the silicon device working. You can specify a nitrogen-cooled plate and ask for -30C as a working temperature. "Scumbria was confusing ...". Ha-ha-ha. You are the confused one. An idiot can never admit that he is an idiot, simply because he is incapable to comprehend the higher meaning of things. By definition.

To: Elmer who wrote (127715)	2/18/2001 2:27:26 PM
From: Mani1	Respond to of 186894

Elmer re << It is unclear how the customer is supposed to determine the die temp unless AMD provides some sort of thermal diode sensing which the system can monitor>> That can be done very easily using various methods. All major OEM's do this as a routine part of qualifying a new CPU and thermal package. These thermal specs are really meant for larger OEM's who have the facility and personal to design their own thermal solution based on these specs. Small computer shops and build it yourself people AMD actually spells out the Heat sink type, fan and the interface material on their website. Re <<How could Intel lower the tjC while increasing the frequency and voltage? It's a function of the physics, not the datasheet.>> This is exactly, 100% what Intel did. By doing so it asked for a thermal solution better than what the previous specs required. A perfectly legitimate thing to do. Mani