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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: average joe who wrote (6407)	2/24/2001 5:55:04 PM
From: E	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

<<< It certainly does not need to be "sentient" or "truly alive" by E's classification to be human. I guess "truly alive" to you would be E burning her bra at a street party. But is that really sentient? >>> You have quoted a phrase, "truly alive," as "E's classification." I challenge you to produce any post of mine with that phrase or classification in it. I have never used such a phrase or evoked such a classification in connection with the abortion discussion, since it is obvious that all cells that aren't dead, including plant cells and mouse cells and those constituting tumors, are "truly alive." This is a specific direct accusation that you have misquoted me, and an objection to your doing so. I believe you to be habitually dishonest. This is a chance to prove that in this case, at least, your "quote" was not a fiction. Show me where you got your quote or admit it wasn't a quote of me at all, only a phrase it suited you to present as one.

To: average joe who wrote (6407)	2/24/2001 6:02:29 PM
From: E	Respond to of 82486

I note you posted a link to a url relating to St. Thomas Aquinas in response to cosmic's comment that St. T believe abortion was not murder until quickening, with an insinuating comment that you guessed cosmic hadn't read St. Thomas Aquinas. However your link held no information of the sort you pretended it did. Why did you pretend it did? Go there yourself and do a search for information that contradicts comic's assertion. It isn't there. Again, you argue by dishonest insinuation. Cosmic knew St. Thomas Aquinas's views on abortion and you didn't. (St. Augustine also did not disapprove early abortion; nor did St. Jerome. Pope Innocent III believed "quickening" was the abortion cut-off time. Pope Gregory XIV said quickening, or 16 1/2 weeks.) What is "obvious" to your great intellect was only relatively recently "obvious" to the Church, and is not at all "obvious" to many religious thinkers even more magnificently scholarly and philosophically brilliant than you are.

To: average joe who wrote (6407)	2/24/2001 6:08:17 PM
From: E	Respond to of 82486

Wow, if you belong to the English church, I sure hope you've never gotten a bj. It was as "obvious" to this important and unaverage dude as certain things are to you that that was MUCH worse than abortion! Religious history is full of tragi-comedy. Starting in the 7th century CE, a series of penitentials were written. These listed an array of sins, with the penance that a person must observe as punishment for the sin. Certain "sins" which prevented conception had particularly heavy penalties. These included: practicing a particularly ineffective form of birth control, coitus interruptus (withdrawal of the penis prior to ejaculation) engaging in oral sex or anal sex becoming sterile by artificial means, such as by consuming sterilizing poisons. Abortion, on the other hand, required a less serious penance. Theodore, who organized the English church, assembled a penitential about 700 CE. Oral intercourse required from 7 years to a lifetime of penance; abortion required only 120 days.