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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: 2MAR$ who wrote (6877)	2/28/2001 11:16:53 AM
From: TimF	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

Yes , industrial efficiency has peaked in terms of demand now .. and we created a voracious mind-set in the consumer , caused by cheaper goods while using up resources to keeping feeding those expectations . What do you think is going to happen now ? Industrial efficiency is not determined by or directly related to demand. It can be effected by it but they are two different things. What do I think is going to happen now? A normal cyclical recession. If we are lucky it can be a very mild one, perhaps not even technically qualifying as a recession (which would require two consecutive quarters of negative growth), if we are unlucky it could be a bit worse then normal. But even if we had the 2nd coming of the great depression it would not mean that we had hit a high-water mark of human economic progress for all time. And higher and higher energy costs are going to become the norm . In inflation adjusted dollars we have faced higher energy costs then this in the past. If they continue to rise it will put some drag on economic growth but it will not end it. We produce more per unit of energy then we used to. Changing over to coal, oil and gas in California ? When you add these three together they all ready provide most of the electricity in the US. I'm not talking about any change over. All the old electricity plants will keep operating. I'm talking about building new plants not changing anything over. Also there is no reason they have to be coal, oil, or gas, I just think they probably will be. And water is maxxed out in California , and in Texas , and in many parts of the Midwest . As well as the agriculture... farms are run by huge corporate conglomerates already. How much more efficient can you get than this ? You can get a lot more efficient and you will if the water subsidies are eliminated or at least greatly reduced. Then a limited supply of water will go towards efficient uses rather then being treated as if it was limitless and almost free. De~salination plants to meet California's needs ? Sounds very, very, plausible.<gg> They wont be necessary if the subsidies are eliminated. If water gets truly scarce where even the most important and efficient uses can't get enough then the price of water would be high enough where desalination plants would make sense, but if the price of water is not subsidized then we will be unlikely to need them. All this to keep up with your belief that everything is so sustainable and will find a technological fix, and keep the toilets flushing and lights flashing in Las Vegas Toilent flushing is not the main use or water. Industry and agriculture use a lot more. Some of this industrial and agricultural use exists only because of the artificially low price that the companies or farms pay for water. But in the realms of Biotechnology we are getting very efficient ...more & more people living longer, longer all over the world.... Again , a problematic thought isn't it ? No. Fertility rates are going down faster then life spans are going up. ... you can be sure of one thing , it is in our own personal lives , more than " industrial production" and "technology fixes" that will become more efficient in 20 years , especially if we are going to be living routinely to 75+ years or more and longer in 10-20 years <g> Could you expand on that idea? What do you mean by our personal lives becoming more efficient? More recycling, more efficient heating and cooling and generally more efficient use of energy and materials? I have news for you , the boom is over in this century as a consumer ,you have known it. This century has just started. I see no sign that the generations to come after us will not be wealthier then we are now. Tim