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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Neocon who wrote (7029)	3/1/2001 8:14:15 PM
From: Solon	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

All I have ever expected (Demanded?) was common decency and common courtesy. Why does that offend you? Now that is much better. I don't get offended at expectations that are not claims and demands. You ask "Why does that offend you?" I have never said it did. I am offended, however, by those who seek to remove the humanity from people by imposing on their right to think. You see, Neocon--the reason I am offended when you demand respect is simply this: YOU MAY NOT BE ENTITLED TO IT. You may be a serial killer, and I might be the cowboy after your ass. Or you might just disgust me with the way you are at parties. I don't know; But if you want respect from me, you gotta get it the old fashioned way: You gotta EARN it. And the more you demanded or claimed it, the less you would get it--for the simple reason that I see such demands as irresponsible, aggressive, insensitive, and wrong. You see, Neocon--your way is the way that robs individuals of humanity; The way that turns their interactions into games of domination/submission--with the stronger or more aggressive in strength, intelligence, or will--simply usurping the rights of the other, and overpowering the other with His beliefs, and His demands. This is a large part of how many children are brought up, and also of how many many people interact on a daily basis. If I demand or claim things from you, I am robbing you of the freedom to think for yourself, and to choose for yourself. If you are to be a moral agent rather than simply a "Squeaky Fromm", you must take the responsibility of filtering the world through the judgement of your own mind. If you find yourself either giving or demanding, a carte blanch moral cheque to or from others--then you truly value nothing...NOTHING. I don't respect rapists, and I don't accomodate boorish, loud, and insensitive people. I can make those moral choices because I do not permit their claims over my mind and over my right to form my OWN value judgements...I am not required to think like anyone else. It is amusing how people who would never take your place when you are on your death-bed (and sometimes they could through modern medicine), will, nevertheless, often have an unceasing barrage of claims as to how you should live your life--not according to your beliefs and values...but according to THEIRS I made the statement that people were separate, and that they had no claims upon one another. I did not say expectations. My statement was challenged (I'll be polite), and I defended it sucessfully over many posts. We were not arguing about motherhood, apple pie, or how cute ALL babies look. Not once did we enter a discussion as to what moral positions people ought to hold about the infinite questions that could have been posed. My argument was a spare argument about the right to be free; The right to be a moral agent, and the right to think for oneself. Your introduction of other elements I found extremely weak. I call it the apple pie method of arguing (Solon doesn't like motherhood, apple pie, and cooperation? Oh, he is simply awful! I bet he doesn't care for history or interdependence, either. terrible, just terrible!). All the things you piggy backed onto our discussion of my freedom from claims are interesting ideas for discussion. I am sure you will find Karen to be more than capable of assisting you through them. You appear to have dropped your claims against me. Bravo! And what has changed? I can still respect you--or not-can't I??. I can still respect you or not...CAN'T I?? I give what I think is deserved or due to my fellow travellers. That is precisely why society holds me responsible and accountable for my actions. Society accepts that those actions were uncoerced and unforced. Society does not support the concept of unearned debt. So if you have no claims against me, we can both be moral agents and both stop making demands on others. If that is the only moral principle that every human would follow, it would cut out all the demands from most of the human race that are irrational, controlling, and harmful. And we'd have a lot less teen pregnancies, too...