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Strategies & Market Trends : Gorilla and King Portfolio Candidates -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Michael Gaudet who wrote (40221)3/10/2001 8:48:53 PM
From: Mike Buckley  Respond to of 54805
 
Michael,

Berkshire said after-tax profits excluding the realized gains from investments were $936 million for 2000.
Would this ($936 million) be called operating earnings in any other company?


For profitable companies, operating profits are generally referred to as pre-tax profits. For unprofitable companies, operating profits are generally referred to as EBITDA (Earnings Before Interest, Taxes, Depreciation and Amortization). However, establishing the trend of EBITDA is not limited to unprofitable companies.

--Mike Buckley



To: Michael Gaudet who wrote (40221)3/10/2001 10:02:40 PM
From: hueyone  Respond to of 54805
 
re: BRKa PE, How far off base am I in making this kind of comparison?

Thanks for reminding me that I may own yet another bubble about to pop, but since BRK is both an investment company and an operating company some adjustments to your 936 million profit figure may be in order. Seems like it might be reasonable to include, rather than exclude, realized gains from investments for BRK, since realized investment gains is an annual occurrence. As you noted, this adjustment brings the trailing PE down to 32.5.

Second, since BRKa owns pieces of multiple businesses that do not pay dividends, (mostly high ROIC companies) it may be reasonable to add the earnings from these companies to Berkshires' earnings for purposes of valuating Berkshire---even though Berkshire does not directly receive these earnings nor pay taxes on them. BRK invested in all these companies precisely for a "claim" to these companies cash flows. We refer to these other companies' earnings as "look through earnings" to BRK. If you add the "look through earnings" into the BRK earnnings mix, this brings the BRK PE down even further. I haven't checked what it is lately, but will let you know if I do.

Finally, Warren Buffet, like Gorilla Gamers, finds PEs an extremely limited measure of valuations.

Best, Huey



To: Michael Gaudet who wrote (40221)3/11/2001 7:05:33 PM
From: Ryan Hess  Respond to of 54805
 
How far off base am I in making this sort of comparison?

Just slightly. Berkshire is very tough to understand, and will involve a significant investment of time on your part. I can already tell from your statements you did not exactly digest the latest annual report. The best place to start is by reading Buffett's writing. If you really want to know why it is trading at its current price, you have to read them. Also, the Motley Fool's BRKa thread is pretty good.

The page below cites some of the factors driving Berkshire's intrinsic value and also provides links to the owners manual and his letters.

creativeacademics.com

If you take the time to do this, you might understand why it is trading where it is, and why it will likely never trade under $1500/B or $45,000/A share in the foreseeable future.

The reports are online and are free. All they cost if you want a hard copy is some paper and ink. Deal of a lifetime.

From Buffett's 2000 Annual Report:

Look-Through Earnings

Reported earnings are an inadequate measure of economic progress at Berkshire, in part because the numbers shown in the table on page 15 include only the dividends we receive from investees - though these dividends typically represent only a small fraction of the earnings attributable to our ownership. To depict something closer to economic reality at Berkshire than reported earnings, though, we employ the concept of "look-through" earnings. As we calculate these, they consist of: (1) the operating earnings reported on page 15; plus; (2) our share of the retained operating earnings of major investees that, under GAAP accounting, are not reflected in our profits, less; (3) an allowance for the tax that would be paid by Berkshire if these retained earnings of investees had instead been distributed to us. When tabulating "operating earnings" here, we exclude purchase-accounting adjustments as well as capital gains and other major non-recurring items.

The following table sets forth our 2000 look-through earnings, though I warn you that the figures can be no more than approximate, since they are based on a number of judgment calls. (The dividends paid to us by these investees have been included in the operating earnings itemized on page 15, mostly under "Insurance Group: Net Investment Income.")


Total look-through earnings $2,415 MM or ~$1578/A share for a PE of 45. Seems high, until you look at the balance sheet.

Good day,

Ryan