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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: cosmicforce who wrote (8881)	3/16/2001 1:26:05 PM
From: Neocon	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

I don't know of any compulsion to be Christian during that period. For example, Augustine wrote "The City of God" to refute the assertion of pagan Romans that Alaric had sacked Rome because the State had abandoned the old ways.(The point being that enough pagans were around for this to be a serious debate).

To: cosmicforce who wrote (8881)	3/16/2001 5:19:31 PM
From: one_less	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"Live free or die?" "They just changed hegemony from military and political to intellectual and spiritual. Not a real liberation, right? Isn't that why people rail against the thought of state-mandated belief?" Good insight. I am guessing here, but if I am wrong it doesn't matter, I think you'll still see my point. I am guessing you are into wholistic healing and such. So I am going to try to use wholistic healing as an analogy. One of the premises in wholistic health is that the symptom of an illness is not the whole picture. The “big ugly thing” may actually be a result of systematic deterioration of some sort. That being the case; if we just lop off the big ugly thing or sap it with some chemical or radiation, the causal condition still exists and may in fact come to the surface in a more advanced stage next time. Right? Well, this is how I view focusing on religion as the problem, or solution, when there is probably something more insidious and endemic that lies beneath the big ugly thing. You may recall my assertion that even if the whole world population accepted my religion, I believe things would continue along the lines they always have because "its the world." I am not cynical about efforts to live free. I, like you, believe it is a cause worthy of dying for if need be. History does reveal that whole cultures have been compelled to incorporate one religion of another. My earlier statement that I don't believe in conversion applies here. I am convinced that oppressive tyrants have frequently found a safe haven in the leadership of the polity of religious bodies. Does that implicate the "religion?" Not to me. People believe what they believe and are as likely, or not, to be despots within or outside of a religious robe. Personally, I think we waste a lot of time focusing on “Religion” when talking about our issues. To you, it might represent the big ugly thing. To someone else it might represent the tool needed to zap the big ugly thing. In either case, enlightened people should know better. We need to have belief statements that we can stand on as a society (ie we believe all of us have certain inalienable rights….). The need to have those statements owned by a religion or a philosophical bent is clubism. We feel validated when someone else joins Our club. That is the biggest reason for all of the pressure to be a member of a party or a religion (bad reason IMO). Lets just support what is right and forget about whether religions want it (so you have to be against it), or its not a religious tenet (so I have to be against it). Well, except some people have a problem with establishing any system of rights and wrongs. Ya can’t please everybody.