SI
SI
discoversearch

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor.  We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community.  If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.
Strategies & Market Trends : The Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: stan s. who wrote (38517)3/16/2001 6:55:20 PM
From: DebtBomb  Respond to of 49816
 
It's all baloney, hee hee.



To: stan s. who wrote (38517)3/16/2001 8:22:47 PM
From: JeanD  Respond to of 49816
 
Thank you Stan :-) I've been tuning into your site nightly!

Hope you're well.

Jean



To: stan s. who wrote (38517)3/16/2001 8:27:57 PM
From: max power  Respond to of 49816
 
Thanks for the comments stan, hope all is well

max

ps. when is Bush going to call you over to the ranch to discuss becoming a member of the Fed? a young AG......



To: stan s. who wrote (38517)3/16/2001 8:41:38 PM
From: Jack Hartmann  Respond to of 49816
 
stark reality of the tech outlook would start to set in

Nasdaq 1450? Stan you're more pessimistic than I <gg>

Glad to see you post.

Jack



To: stan s. who wrote (38517)3/17/2001 2:45:03 AM
From: amadeus  Respond to of 49816
 
I can imagine a few scenarios..

my guess is greenie will only go 1/2 pt tuesday.
hope I'm wrong, & others at the FOMC sway him for more.
the data is too mixed, and he doesn't want to be forced by the markets expectation and hope.
but I do think he will be more concerned about the dow, and s&p pulling back, than he has been about the naz.
the naz is doing just what he wanted it to do.
so I'm thinking he will follow up with another 1/2 pt.
well before the next meeting in may,
on the next signs of weakness.. whether its japan, or the
dow, or a big drop in consumer confidence.



To: stan s. who wrote (38517)3/17/2001 12:31:53 PM
From: SirRealist  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 49816
 
Stan;

Good to see you. Sorry we've made a mess of the place, but we'll replace the broken future with our stock winnings someday...

I have questions to pose: what if there is no capitulation?

Yes, I think that's how it might happen, for now. Consider how the market has reacted recently:

--Jan low 2252, rebound to 2616 then 3 day dip to retest, then 2 week run to 2892.

--A week to dip and retest the top.

-- 3 week drop to a new low at 2156, two day rally to 2309.

-- 3 day drop to 2071, 1 week rally to 2243 (2 day double top).

-- 3 day drop to 1922, 3 days of mostly sideways trading that peaks out at 2030 (3 days peaks of 2015, 2028, 2030 forms, perhaps, a triple top).

-- 2 day drop to 1877 low (intraday) with close at 1890.

Now, forgetting TA for a se, it seems obvious that a mini-rally is due going into FOMC. Call it the human psychology factor. But let's assess our stairsteppin' NASDy for any patterns:

-- successive lows of 2252, 2156, 2071, 1922, 1877. The difference in each drop was 96, 85, 149, and 45. But every one of the other lows came with a rebound, ending at the day's high. Most were 3 day drops and we just did day 2 on the last fall. So it's unlikely the 1877 can hold come Monday. It would seem we may bounce off 1850 (making that 45 pt drop into 85 pts... comparable to 2 of the 3 others.)

-- another scenario, based on the past year of drops I've reviewed, indicates a capitulatory move often entails a 125-130 pt. drop, followed by a 200 pt same-day rebound. If we follow this course Monday, 1890-130= 1760! (a number you and I both came to in our TA).

-- since I figure it's human nature to run up in advance of a FOMC rate cut, Monday probably provides one of two scenarios: a rebound from 1850 (non-capitulatory) or from 1760 (capitulatory). That's where I'll be watching.

=================================

A little more speculation on patterns (I know it's hard for a TA specialist, but humor me)

Successive peaks, from mini-rally to mini-rally, have been 2892, 2593, 2309, 2243, 2030 (2593 was irrelevant to the drops noted above but occurred in the long decline from Jan). The differences in peaks have been 299, 284, 66, 213. The odds favor at least a 200 pt. rise off Monday's bottom, to the next peak. Human nature again.

So, if we were to bounce at 1850, the next peak would be 2050 or better.

But wait! That yields a higher high than the last, of 2030! Would that mean 1850 is the nearterm bottom as NASDy reverses and begins an ascent phase again? Possibly, but I doubt it, for several reasons. Margin calls... and fund redemptions (with 1 month till tax due day, folks are spooked and may preserve remaining capital out of the fear of things getting worse by 4/15)... and, as you've noted, there's stronger support at 1450, using TA.

Based on the stairstepping patterns of both the fresh lows and successively lower highs, the more probable sequence now is a drop to 1760 and a rebound to 1960 Monday.

==============================

Semi-Conclusion

Of course, that would have us 70 pts away from the previous high, closer than most previous highs in succession.

I can't account for everything in my speculation. But it does suggest a rally off this bottom may be shortlived, indeed.

On the other hand, if we bounce from 1850, we are similarly limited... unless we truly hit the final bottom of this year.

===========================

A Foray into TA, plus Channelling to the Bottom of it all

Your TA is superior to my random line drawings. But my TA suggests some support in the range of 1702-1715. Another exists at 1465. A weak one at 1357 exists from the Oct 98 low. And another pretty solid line of resistance around 1200 someplace (1194 is as near as I can define it).

I base those on multiple closes at a key point, or on valley bottoms, to use non-TA terms.

But my channel lines reveal a fresh set of numbers. On the uphill climb, drawing a line from the low of July 96 through the low of October 98 conceivably would provide a support point, at approximately 1740 Monday. Awfully close to the 1760 weak support point (and human-psychology -on-a - capitulation-number). It oughta be an interesting bull/bear battle someplace between 1740-1760 then....

But, as I recall, we are no longer in that rising trend. A few months back, I posted a descending channel graph, which defined several key points NASDy could fall to, within that descent. It has not broken the parameters yet.

But it is closing now within a tighter channel-within-a-channel. My lines suggest it will find a bottom before it hits 1200 and probably above 1250 (it is hard to pinpoint and likely to be inexact using any TA ). And we'd get there by early May.

If so, the channel of subsequent rise is likely, nearterm, to yield a much slower rate of rise, the one that existed prior to 1997.

==============================

Random Sparks of Speculation

I've seen almost every pattern of trading from 1998 to Sept 2000, broken in the months since. 5 consecutive days of lower eods, followed by a rise? Broken, along with many otherformer truisms.

One of the most oft-repeated things I've heard for months is the call for capitulation, so we "can get it over with". I would toss in two possibilities, since all other rules-of-thumb have broken down.

First, we may never capitulate. That would permit institutions to grab the shares at the lowest prices for a day or two during a lethargic rally beginning. We'd still be debating whether that was a bottom or not.

Second, as I noted with my successive bottoms and successive tops patterns, we might capitulate, rebound and discover that bottom is quickly rebroken. Maybe 1750, 1850 then 1670. That sure would anger, and depress, the stalwarts & believers.

As a final point, from purely a mathematical perspective, wherever growth appears that can be charted, that displays exponential growth, the end result is pretty predictable. The chart falls off a cliff, typically dropping 2/3 to 3/4 from the top.

2/3 off 5132 (the intraday peak) equals 1710, one of my support points.

3/4 off equals 1283, a point approximate with the end to my descending channels charting.

And the worst case mathematically, 3/4 off the highest closing price yields 1254.

Somewhere within this range of 1254 to 1710, we're likely to find our bottom.

============================

My conclusion at the present is 1283 probably the first week of May.

For one, there will be stalwarts waiting till April 13-15 to cash in stocks and redeem funds, hoping for a rebound in their holdings to better satisfy their IRS debt. Downward pressure remains at least till April 16 then. And we haven't even factored in NASDy delistings, which are likely to come in in waves in April & May...

Better earnings reports are not expected for most companies before October and even that's not a given. There's confidence that January 2002 will be okay then. Typically, the institutional market tries to be anticipatory and lately seems to begin pricing things in 4 months in advance (Bad January earnings caused a fall from Sept 1, for example).

Four months before October is June. That is the first month to see any stronger incentive to rise and break out of the descent channel. It seems quite clear the bottom should occur between 4/16 and 5/31, and as I noted previously, my lines converge in the first half of May.

====================

It ain't just TA, but these are factors. I didn't even mention energy prices and droughts, did I?

No doubt there's market manipulation, but I distinctly recall major shifts in the market subsequent to fresh highs in oil prices or the energy crisis in California (where 1/8 of us live).

With all this in mind, there's some rationale for a Monday rebound (1850? 1760? 1740? 1710?), a plunge on the rate cut announcement, but no relief from the hunt for the bottom till mid-April, at least.

I just thought I'd share my confusion with you and everyone else, so you'd feel sympathy for what my poor penguins put up with when I blabber on so.

Will you send them some fish guts? I'm fresh out.



To: stan s. who wrote (38517)3/20/2001 10:50:32 PM
From: 2MAR$  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 49816
 
Don't get me wrong, I think they're behind the curve as it is but I don't think they'll chance the possibly meltdown to the market that a 1/4 or 1/2 point reduction might precipitate. Do I think the economy needs a 3/4 point move? Not really but the market does and I think it'll get it.

well it was asking for too much Stan ...but you were right
about the carnage not being over. Pretty good post.

Valuations and global recession.

here was a a fun post Sir Goldy
Message 15523120

Internet millionaire Charles Ferguson takes a lighter look at what went wrong with the technology revolution

Financial Times; Mar 17, 2001
By CHARLES FERGUSON

Looking backward from the internet revolution's nuclear winter, it seems
ever more stunning that the US technology sector and financial system
were able to construct a house of cards even faster than the phenomenon
itself could progress.

Of course, the financial industry didn't do it alone - it took a whole nation.
And the internet phenomenon was uniquely self-reinforcing.

Nonetheless, it was still an impressive achievement. Only 10 years ago
Silicon Valley remained a world apart, fuelled by nerds and financed by a
small cadre of tough, street-smart dead white males. It was a pain to get
there, and the Valley was, well, different. There were no good restaurants.
Huge fortunes and catastrophic reversals depended on arcane technologies.

And then there were the people. The technologists were brilliant, quirky,
unmanageable and wildly funny; the business types calculating, and driven,
but with no apparent fear of consequences. Nobody wore ties, and you
couldn't predict what they might do.

Take Larry Ellison, the founder and CEO of Oracle. He has had the usual
trappings, but he also has supersonic combat aircraft - admittedly, only an
F86, because the Defense Department, being small-minded, turned him
down when he tried to buy an F16.

Although nobody in New York realised it, these people made serious
money - far more than pitiful wage slaves such as George Soros. Venture
capital was small, clubby, informal and stunningly profitable.

Before the internet, venture technology investment rarely exceeded Dollars
3bn a year. Yet those investments turned into Intel, Microsoft, Cisco,
Oracle, Compaq, Sun and 1,000 others now worth - even during nuclear
winter - more than a trillion dollars.

For 30 years, the industry lived in charmed seclusion. When I started my
first company with Randy Forgaard in 1994, we had trouble raising Dollars
4m, mainly because nobody knew what the internet was.

But then, virtually over night, the web was growing by 25 per cent a month
and Netscape, Yahoo! and Amazon were worth billions. The investment
bankers awoke, and the world followed.

In January 1996, I sold my company to Microsoft, and became an "angel"
investor. As I wandered the industry, I realised that we had entered a
strange new universe.

The most obvious signs, of course, were valuations. Yahoo!, then with
Dollars 100m in revenue, was valued at Dollars 70bn; Amazon, still losing
money on every book, at Dollars 30bn.

Equally telling, however, was what happened within the industry itself. The
strangest people were launching companies, raising astounding sums and
spending wildly. People from Harvard, Yale and even Princeton. People with
blow-dried hair, backwards baseball caps, driving sport utility vehicles. Tall,
slender, gorgeous people dressed in black Armani. People who wouldn't
know good technology if it hit them in the eye.

In early 1996, I went to check out a web start-up. They had remodelled an
entire floor, at enormous cost, in something I might describe as
high-technology bondage - huge chains hung where more parochial people
would have put walls. These people had serious attitude, great clothes and
cool music.

When I was so indelicate as to interview them, however, I realised they
didn't have the faintest idea how to build commercial software. What kind of
moron would invest in these people, and what kind of customers would give
them business?

We have a problem here, I thought.

Once the explosion began, it was in virtually everyone's interest to
perpetuate it. The silliest start-ups could raise money at astronomical
valuations; venture capitalists could raise enormous funds and pay
themselves 2 per cent a year; any company at all could go public; the
public companies could make billion-dollar acquisitions with cheap stock;
investment banks handled initial public offerings and mergers; day traders,
and then everyone else, made fortunes on the stock market.

The losers would be those who remained standing when the music stopped.
And so everyone pitched in marvellously - start-ups, the media, VCs,
investment banks, mutual funds, PR companies, business schools,
headhunters, property developers and, of course, the general public.

Venture capital flows went from Dollars 5bn in 1994 to Dollars 50bn last
year. Start-ups threw half-million-dollar parties in museums; analysts
recommended stocks without great discernment; even the sill-iest IPOs
received multi-billion-dollar valuations.

All this drew the greedy, the cool and the merely naive in vast numbers.
Launching real companies grew difficult, because you were in a financial
arms race, and people couldn't tell the junk from the jewels - or didn't care.

In these regards, the internet bubble was like most others. However, several
unique factors contributed to the suddenness of this one.

First, people finally realised that this peculiar industry in California was
making a huge amount of money. Second, the internet revolution was real,
and US productivity growth rapidly tripled to more than 3 per cent a year.
The US economy boomed, corporate profits grew even faster, and
technology came to dominate capital spending. Thus the development
spread to the entire technology sector, and the bubble followed.

But third, the internet bubble was uniquely propagated by the internet itself.
The revolution was not merely real - it was also self-advertising because it
was universal.

Suddenly, anyone could trade stocks virtually for free - via the internet; you
could see financial reports and stock research about internet companies -
on the internet; every company could prove that it had an internet strategy -
on the internet; you could tell your friends about your marvellous adventures
- through the internet.

To be cool, you needed to get an internet account so you could send
e-mails to your cooler friends who already had one. Very quickly, you could
experience the joys of free international telephone calls, massive copyright
infringement, instant messaging and buying things below cost on great
websites.

Well, it was a wild party. If oil prices, Alan Greenspan and dawning
realisations hadn't spoiled it, maybe we could have steered ourselves into a
true disaster.

I confess that I prefer the quirky, witty, socially inept, brilliant,
unmanageable technologists of yesteryear. However, the Silicon Valley
restaurants are much better now, so it wasn't a total loss.

* Charles Ferguson co-founded Vermeer Technologies in 1994 and sold it to
Microsoft two years later for Pounds 133m. His book, High Stakes, No
Prisoners, is published in the UK by Texere, Pounds 12.99.

globalarchive.ft.com.

.