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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (8952)	3/16/2001 7:25:14 PM
From: Patricia Trinchero	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I didn't believe it so I looked it up and have it as John,8,44 with a few of the words changed in my Bible. It appears that Christ is trading remarks with the Jews each proclaiming the other as "from the devil". Kinda reminds me of the President George W. Bush thread posters reacting to the Democrat's remarks: Message 15518032

To: E who wrote (8952)	3/16/2001 7:55:30 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

E, I'm with you on this. Before Xtianity, Judaism was just one middle-eastern tribal cult among many others. It was fortunate in that many of the prescribed rules were biologically beneficial (e.g., rules on diet, hygiene and intermarriage), so it survived longer than most. The Gospels were inspired by ex-Jews, and written - many years later - by those who would probably have seen the Jews as competitors in proselytism (even the Roman Empire at the time saw Judaism as a major threat to its own religion)... also, it would have been decidedly impolitic for Xtianity to have cast the Romans as the enemy, given their situation. But every theism needs an enemy... and the precursor religion is usually the best fit. And whatever glib excuses given by apologists, the root of the hatred has always been the ideology of the Gospels. The Kings of medieval England expelled the Jews more than once, branding them Christ-killers... seizing their money (Jews were allowed to lend money: one of their few permitted trades) may have been the actual incentive, but the rationale was ready-made and the Church approved - well, it literally gave its blessing...

To: E who wrote (8952)	3/18/2001 8:17:37 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

E, I did an online search for John 8:39 and it isn't what you say it is. It is "39. They answered, and said to him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith to them, If you were Abraham's children, you would do the works of Abraham." Another source has it as "39 They answered and said unto him, 1Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, 2If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham." The closest I can find to what you posted is John 8:44 but reading it in context it is clear that he is talking to the Pharisees who where trying to trick him, not condeming all Jews as sons of the devil. Tim