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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (9261)	3/21/2001 12:46:59 PM
From: thames_sider	Respond to of 82486

conceded the initial premiss that the universe demonstrates purpose and design. Are you saying that you agree with that premiss? No, I disagree with that premise. The universe need have no more 'purpose' or 'design' than a pebble picked up upon a seashore. I can, if I wish, try and perceive a design - maybe I think the pebble looks like a face, or a body, or maybe the striations resemble writing; and then I could attribute it a purpose in being so shaped; but my beliefs do not make it so. The point was raised to show the flaw in the 'watchmaker' line of argument. The computer programs are random, written with a set of rules - like the laws of physics, say - but without any control or design in what emerges. The rules simply are the rules for that computerised universe. There is a 'what', but there need be no 'why'. Nor, BTW, would I claim the arrogance to think I knew the purpose of some unimaginable being who could create the universe - still less design it... Arrogance? then best not to mention the incredible hubris that that purpose would be... me!

To: Greg or e who wrote (9261)	3/21/2001 2:57:30 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

The argument that God must have had a designer only begins to work after you have conceded the initial premiss that the universe demonstrates purpose and design. If we perceive purpose and design, it may be that Someone gave the world purpose and design. Or it may be that what is, just is, and we who live in it have formulated the notions of purpose and design and applied them retroactively to what surrounds us. Either is possible. No way to know. Karen