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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Greg or e who wrote (10017)	3/29/2001 1:38:34 PM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 82486

Let's post just one story here , Greg , of a disciple "walking on the water " and let others here judge for them selves if it resembles anything like the fable that you found inserted in the Christian storie/myth . BTW Greg , there is so much that you could learn from Buddhism that is of the highest complimentary order to your own belief, if not one of the foundations for it. Buddha's teachings of were spread far and wide , when Christian myths were just beginning to be assembled from vague stories whispered from Israel to Corinth to Rome in houses and catacombs , and "inspired" wanderers . You know how it goes , a tale told from ear to ear for years and years .... gets just a little embellished. When the Buddha died Greg , they assembled all the monks from throughout the land, who had heard him preach and the sermons he gave, to preserve immediately after for posterity . They not only are great record keepers there but a city arose on that spot that became dedicated soley for the purpose of preserving the teachings , and was to become the world's largest city/universities dedicated for that purpose , next to Alexandria in Egypt. And remembering that the "Enlightened One " taught and wandered everywhere about , for over 40+years. He taught Kings and the poor alike equally. Not until centuries later when the Islamic Jhiad was to come in , and slew 20,000 Buddhist Monks and destroyed it in one day. But the teachings had spread farther and wider than any other religion by then. So you see , much was preserved very faithfully , and Buddha taught for over 40 years ....strange that Jesus being the Son of God and the Savior magically appears for 3 years and is gone . Read this account of the Buddha's disciple walking on the water , in the following post and tell me you do see the similarity to the story later inserted in the Christian fable? It was a story told centuries earlier than the the "Gospels " , and surely must have been heard in the busy seaports of Corinth and the trade routes of the middle east. regards, Mars

To: Greg or e who wrote (10017)	3/29/2001 1:40:13 PM
From: 2MAR$	Respond to of 82486

~ Lord Buddha ....& Disciple Walking on the Water ~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ SOUTH of Savatthi is a great river, on the banks of which lay a hamlet of five hundred houses. Thinking of the salvation of the people, the World-honored One resolved to go to the village and preach the doctrine. Having come to the riverside he sat down beneath a tree, and the villagers seeing the glory of his appearance approached him with reverence; but when he began to preach, they believed him not. When the world-honored Buddha had left, one called Savatthi Sariputta felt a desire to see the Lord and to hear him preach. Coming to the river where the water was deep and the current strong, he said to himself: "This stream shall not prevent me. I shall go and see the Blessed One, and he stepped upon the water which was as firm under his feet as a slab of granite. When he arrived at a place in the middle of the stream where the waves were high, Sariputta's heart gave way, and he began to sink. But rousing his faith and renewing his mental effort, he proceeded as before and reached the other bank. The people of the village were astonished to see Sariputta, and they asked how he could cross the stream where there was neither a bridge nor a ferry. Sariputta replied: "I lived in ignorance until I heard the voice of the Buddha. As I was anxious to hear the doctrine of salvation, I crossed the river and I walked over its troubled waters because I had faith. Faith. nothing else, enabled me to do so, and now I am here in the bliss of the Master's presence." And Lord Buddha added: "Sariputta, thou hast spoken well. Faith like thine alone can save the world from the yawning gulf of migration and enable men to walk dryshod to the other shore." And the Blessed One urged to the villagers the necessity of ever advancing in the conquest of sorrow and of casting off all shackles so as to cross the river of worldliness and attain deliverance from death. Hearing the words of the Tathagata, the villagers were filled with joy and believing in the doctrines of the Blessed One embraced the five rules and took refuge in his name. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~* Does it ressemble anything you have heard before Greg ? regards , Mars

To: Greg or e who wrote (10017)	3/29/2001 1:40:23 PM
From: cosmicforce	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

All the Middle Eastern religions (short of the Ba'hai, as far as I know) seem to have the fire and brimstone edge to them. Basically, we are born worthless and in a state of despair (without accepting Christ or Allah). There just isn't all that damnation baggage in the Eastern religion and even when there are overlaps, the ME religions come across as inferior (IMO). The downside in Buddhism is that if you don't ascend to a higher level, you could go down the spiritual ladder and be on the treadmill forever, doomed to continued suffering like we have here on Earth. It isn't a punishment, but more a recognition of the reality of physical existence. It is exceedingly hard to get points as an ant or other lower lifeform, according to this doctrine because you just don't get many opportunities. That is what is cool about it, Greg, -- it celebrates our humanity and spiritual uniqueness without setting us apart from our environment and our responsibility in the greater physical world. The truths are representation so therefore don't have to be absolutely true. The truth lies in the obviousness and gentleness of the religion as a whole. The whole Judeo-Christian ethic has largely led us to do really horrible things (to ourselves and our environment) because of the interpretation of certain scriptural passages. If you aren't in lock-step with the philosophy, there is not gentleness, there is anger. I've always said that the Bible has pretty much anything you want to argue in it. Solon has gone over the top on it I think, but it is generally true. I've heard people tell me that I'm not as good as a now Born-Again serial murderer who tortured his victims in the eyes of the Lord because I haven't "found Christ" (whatever that means). Never mind that I've really gone out of my way to right my wrongs and to do the right thing by all creatures under my control. That just doesn't count - that's a bogus philosophy for me. For someone who is holistic and sees the big picture, without considerable manipulation of scripture, it just isn't going to appeal to someone like me. I have a good friend that claims to be a Christian, but he would probably not be a "good" Christian according to many because he believes in multiple paths. "I am the way" could be interpreted to mean, "I am the way for me, and you are the way for you" where "I" is a representational abstraction of the self. Tell me that you could allow such a liberal interpretation and still qualify as a Christian in your viewpoint! I don't think you would or can. I know that there are considerable doctrinal problems between your flavor of Christianity and those of the Catholics or even other charismatic Christian sects. Sorry, but I just don't see Christianity as being a one size fits all religion that is a UNIQUE source of UNIVERSAL truth. You can make some pretty decent spiritual progress with parts of the doctrine but for me it is way too limited in its scope and has a certain inflexibility to it. Seems way too primitive and unevolved (IMO).

To: Greg or e who wrote (10017)	3/29/2001 1:43:39 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

It is very interesting to see the different reactions to miraculous accounts of Buddha vs those of Jesus. Greg, I'm confused. Since when did Buddha do miracles? Buddha wasn't a god. Buddhism doesn't have gods. It seems reasonable to me to compare their philosophies because they both had philosophies. Comparing miracles is like apples and oranges. Karen

To: Greg or e who wrote (10017)	3/29/2001 5:32:46 PM
From: Dayuhan	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

If you take 33A.D. to be the time of the crucifixion, then that does not allow enough time for significant mythtification, since too many people were around to dispute the accounts. Serious mythification, especially in a culture depending on oral accounts, can begin within minutes of an event. I live in a country where accounts of visions of the virgin Mary, complete with showers of rose petals and sweet-scented air, are regular events; thousands, sometimes tens of thousands of people dash off to the site and prostrate themselves before the visionaries. Of course there are plenty of people around to dispute the accounts; nobody listens to them. The pilgrims believe because they want to believe. The earliest arguments against the resurrection were that the disciples stole the body, by bribing the Guards at the tomb, thereby acknowledging that the tomb was empty. It seems to me that the best explanation of that fact is that Jesus did in fact, rise from the dead. If a body is placed in a tomb that is later found to be empty, the logical conclusion would appear to be that someone removed the body from the tomb. I can't see any reason to believe otherwise, unless of course you really really want to.