To: LTK007 who wrote (10183 ) 4/2/2001 12:47:39 AM From: 2MAR$ Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 82486 he also was a fatalist,for all his spiritualism,he was certain on his death that he was finito/kaput/non-conscious nothingness.At least that was his public pronouncement. I would say that too...when you strip away all the veneer of the activities we engage in ...it is usually approximately 99% of our focus and hidden energies are directed at staying young , enjoying the deserts of this life and the next without end . Whole industrys and religions are devoted to this end . The Pursuit of Happiness...to know Freedom , to become part of the eternal body in heaven, and know that you are going to dance with the angels. As much as death , most fear the infirmity and loss of faculty of old age . A man his strength , a woman her beauty , both the loss of youth... If a man only conquer enough land , lay waste to his enemies , obtain enough wealth , have others bow down, he can prolong the inevitable ...at least maintain the vanity of the illusion a little longer. It is fundamental to the building of our own sense of self, safe space and our organism . We were not just made to think , but to move around , play , absorb, experience, wonder and imagine ...and act. This is what we do for the most part, when you take only the first 5 years of our existence in the world , and the incredible amounts of developement that goes on , just in organizing our perceptions and skills learned....and all that before we first learn to stand upright . Untold ages & eons we go thru in that time of forming the patterns growing and experiences and experiments with life that are too numerous to name , but comprised most of our highest & sharpest moments of Joy , suffering , fear & elations . If you go back into the womb ... there are probably sensations of warmth , safety & union , that will never be known again in this experience called life , or any other . I doubt very much as to whether that heaven promised could compare to the complete happinesses and hopes experienced while in childhood. But we have to keep the priests in jobs ...but more and more priests are not buying into it anymore. Perhaps Moksha , Nirvanna , or going to "Heaven " ...is just our way of externalizing the warm, safe and seeming secure universe we once knew , once but only once in the womb . There was once the "Womb " ...now how do we get back to it before our toes freeze !! ;-) But to get back to the womb of existence is an quite and odyssey & exstacy...suffering is universal , so where does it come from , what is the source? The mystery of life is that we all don't see that it is probably all of our shared one secret desire . Christians probably truly desire more to be in the primal womb of the mother Mary , than they would want to be in the body of Christ. If they had a choice.... ;-) Mars PS : Probably the one and only time we were ever going to be immortal , was in that 9month period we all spent in our mother's wombs . One imaginative child can probably see more of God and the universe, than many wise old sages , rabbais , and priests, scientists put together. *of course this is all just trivial footnotes of my own , just like your own ....hehe