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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: E who wrote (134601)4/2/2001 1:44:15 AM
From: greenspirit  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
E, do you support an immediate ratification of the Kyoto Protocols for the United States of America?



To: E who wrote (134601)4/2/2001 1:58:31 AM
From: Thomas A Watson  Respond to of 769667
 
Dear E. you listen to the arguments as a technical no little or nothing and cannot evaluate for yourself the data. You think that by doing the environmental thing you are saving something.

What the US does or does not do is a drop in the bucket and changes what will or won't happen by a decade or two. What is proposed will have a dramatic impact on the lives and well being of tens if not hundreds of thousands in this country. That means that many will die sooner as a stress never is applied just a little to everyone. Those who are at the bottom suffer the bulk.

So if I'm wrong it means that between then and now more will live a better life and those in the future will have better technology to reverse or mitigate any negative effects.

Folks don't understand the other nation of billions are now just becoming industrialized and will soon pollute far more than the US. This is truly a simple and obvious progression and I find it amazing that so many just can't see it.

tom watson tosiwmee



To: E who wrote (134601)4/2/2001 2:03:41 AM
From: greenspirit  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 769667
 
I have no idea how many disagreed with the final report. I would imagine one could find out with enough digging. The point is your supposed "fact", of a global scientific consensus is anything but a fact.

I've posted you a list with over 19,000 scientists on it, many of which are experts in the field of climatology. On the other hand, you've posted a list of 200-300 scientist, who for the most part have had very little to do with climate modeling or work in the field.

Every time I engage in a debate regarding this issue on SI, it astonishes me to see how weak the global warming proponents argument is. Basically, it comes down to this...Well, we could be right, and since it's safer to er on the side of caution in these matters, I support radical, costly environmental measures to prevent it from spreading".

Let's examine this thought process and see where it might lead us in the future.

I believe in a theory called "Global ocean spraying". And the basis of my theory is that motorized vessels are steadily damaging the oceans by releasing gasses vapors from their engines. In order to back up my claim, I've got studies showing less fish being harvested today, whales on the brink of extinction, and people getting sicker and sicker from swimming in the ocean year after year.

I call a global summit, get a bunch of left wing one world government scientists to sign a document stating "something must be done immediately". So, protocols are set forth, and the only ones having to reduce vessel vapor trails are the industrialized countries. All other countries are exempt.

Sound familiar??



To: E who wrote (134601)4/2/2001 2:06:45 AM
From: KLP  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
E, I did find this re Romania: CIA-Romania - From World Fact Book

cia.gov

Economy - overview: After the collapse of the Soviet Bloc in 1989-91, Romania was left with an obsolete industrial base and a pattern of industrial capacity wholly unsuited to its needs. In February 1997, Romania embarked on a comprehensive macroeconomic stabilization and structural reform program, but reform subsequently has been a frustrating stop-and-go process. Restructuring programs include liquidating large energy-intensive industries and major agricultural and financial sector reforms. In 1999 Romania's economy contracted for a third straight year - by an estimated 4.8%. Romania reached an agreement with the IMF in August for a $547 million loan, but release of the second tranche was postponed in October because of unresolved private sector lending requirements and differences over budgetary spending. Bucharest avoided defaulting on mid-year lump-sum debt payments, but had to significantly draw down reserves to do so; reserves rebounded to an estimated $1.5 billion by yearend 1999. The government's priorities include: obtaining renewed IMF lending, tightening fiscal policy, accelerating privatization, and restructuring unprofitable firms. Romania was invited by the EU in December 1999 to begin accession negotiations.

GDP: purchasing power parity - $87.4 billion (1999 est.)

GDP - real growth rate: -4.8% (1999 est.)

GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $3,900 (1999 est.)

GDP - composition by sector:
agriculture: 23%
industry: 51%
services: 26% (1997)

Population below poverty line: 21.5% (1994 est.)

Household income or consumption by percentage share:
lowest 10%: 3.8%
highest 10%: 20.2% (1992)

Inflation rate (consumer prices): 44% (1999 est.)

Labor force: 9.6 million (1998 est.)

Labor force - by occupation: agriculture 36.5%, industry 34.4%, services 29.1% (1994)

Unemployment rate: 11% (1999 est.)

Budget:
revenues: $11.2 billion
expenditures: $12.7 billion, including capital expenditures of $NA (1999 est.)

Industries: mining, timber, construction materials, metallurgy, chemicals, machine building, food processing, petroleum production and refining

Industrial production growth rate: -8.7% (1999 est.)

Electricity - production: 52.495 billion kWh (1998)

Electricity - production by source:
fossil fuel: 59%
hydro: 31.67%
nuclear: 9.33%
other: 0% (1998)

Electricity - consumption: 49.552 billion kWh (1998)

Electricity - exports: 537 million kWh (1998)

Electricity - imports: 1.269 billion kWh (1998)


Agriculture - products: wheat, corn, sugar beets, sunflower seed, potatoes, grapes; milk, eggs, beef

Exports: $8.4 billion (f.o.b., 1999 est.)

Exports - commodities: textiles and footwear 33.4%, metals and metal products 19.1%, machinery and equipment 9.5%, minerals and fuels 6.1% (1998)

Exports - partners: Italy 22%, Germany 19.6%, France 5.9%, US 3.8% (1998)

Imports: $9.6 billion (f.o.b., 1999 est.)

Imports - commodities: machinery and equipment 23%, fuels and minerals 14.2%, chemicals 8.7%, textiles and footwear 17.1% (1998)

Imports - partners: Germany 17.5%, Italy 17.4%, France 6.9%, US 4.2% (1998)

Debt - external: $9 billion (1999 est.)

Economic aid - recipient: $510.1 million (1995)

Currency: 1 leu (L) = 100 bani

Exchange rates: lei (L) per US$1 - 17,996.4 (December 1999), 15,332.8 (1999), 8,875.6 (1998), 7,167.9 (1997), 3,084.2 (1996), 2,033.3 (1995)

Fiscal year: calendar year
...



To: E who wrote (134601)4/2/2001 2:28:43 AM
From: ZenWarrior  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 769667
 
E, I always find it amusing that people fight us on alternative energy, etc, yet there are so many reasons even beyond the environment to justify such actions. Natural gas is in limited supply, and mostly controlled by OPEC... why in the world would we wish to stay on that course when we have energy sources which last *forever*, and we have them in our own backyard, rather than on another continent?? And even if global warming had a 1 in 10 chance of being reality (yeah right! ...more like 9.9999 in 10), then aren't these steps well worth it?? I wonder what these people would do if they knew there was a 1 in 10 chance of their child being killed if they walked out the front door of the house instead of the back door? Only a fool would make the wrong decision. It just goes to show how far people will go to resist change... *any* change, no matter how good it is for them.

- Zen