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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: The Philosopher who wrote (10431)	4/4/2001 6:18:10 PM
From: Bill	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

The atheists I know have value systems based on their own beliefs of what is morally acceptable. It is my position that the origins and sustainability of societal morals are tied to theological beliefs.

To: The Philosopher who wrote (10431)	4/4/2001 7:12:14 PM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

assume pure atheism with no believers to provide a moral base. What, then, would morality be based on? Er, isn't Buddhism literally atheistic? Offering moral precepts and a moral purpose, without gods? Or perhaps we simply haven't been sufficiently advanced and civilised, before now, to construct a moral and ethical framework without calling upon the enforcement of the boogiemen... Question for you. Do you believe that - maybe only in Western civilisation, if you choose - we are more morally aware, more ethical, more conscious of our place and role in the world than peoples in previous centuries? If you do not, how and why are we less advanced? But if you do believe that we have improved on our predecessors, why would we feel compelled to follow their beliefs? <edit> provocative, but not rhetorical...

To: The Philosopher who wrote (10431)	4/4/2001 8:06:50 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 82486

In mixed societies of some atheists, some agnostics, and some believers, morals have generally been those developed by the believers and adopted, usually through social pressure, by the atheists and agnostics. Prove it. Go ahead, prove it. Historical source, please? And are Buddhists amoral or immoral? Because there is no God or gods in Buddhism. What, then, would morality be based on? What happens when a believer loses his belief? If I am to believe you, he is an immoral monster who probably should be shot. Can not morality be based upon the good of the individual and of society as a whole? There may be (and is) much disagreement about what those are, but there also is much agreement.