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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: E who wrote (11638)	4/17/2001 10:26:24 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

So, Karen, care to assert anything about the nation in my hand, lol? Sorry, E, I don't understand your question. Karen

To: E who wrote (11638)	4/17/2001 11:09:31 AM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

as a child growing up in the south, one suffered at the hands of sanctimonious bullies whose loving Christian God evidently recommended the tormenting of atheist and Jewish children I recall your writing about your childhood experiences before. It's easy to see why you are so angry. I posted at length about my anger over the Bush swearing-in ceremony and that was a very mild rebuke compared to what you experienced as a child. I can't begin to argue with your in-your-face anger. I'm just saying to those who would make RU486 illegal and who defend the Global Gag Rule, get off our backs with your religion and any of its wildly, abusively intrusive, irrational, inhumane, and specifically religious rules; this is as much our country as it is yours. I despise these policies as much as you do and for the same reasons. I agree that it's in-your-face; but I didn't choose it either, I was raised an atheist What I don't see is how religious prejudice and religiously based public policies determine one's personal religiosity. I was raised a Catholic, but I ain't one any more. I experienced some prejudice over my religion when I was a child, but that had nothing to do with my remaining a Catholic or moving on. If you were raised an atheist and are now an atheist it's either because you were so brainwashed you can't evolve your beliefs (and I know you're too smart for that), because you hold a mature belief that there is no god, or because you have some sentimental attachment to your childhood belief system. That fundamentalist Christians can be real SOBs is a reason to be repelled by bigotry, sanctimony, and arrogance and to perhaps be hostile to the fundamentalist Christian political movement. It's not a reason to be an atheist, IMO. Karen

To: E who wrote (11638)	4/17/2001 2:38:19 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 82486

I'm just saying to those who would make RU486 illegal and who defend the Global Gag Rule, get off our backs with your religion and any of its wildly, abusively intrusive, irrational, inhumane, and specifically religious rules; this is as much our country as it is yours. Which is a fine position for you to take. As long as you understand that they are saying back "get off our backs with your atheism, and its denial of human life and its demands that we pay our tax dollars to support the murder of innocent children and create death and misery throughout the world." Let us assume -- I have no reason to suppose that he will, but let us assume -- that Bush were to start using federal tax dollars to support African health centers that advised parents to engage in infant female genital mutilation, and funded those operations. I'm assuming (I'm hoping) that you find that practice, traditional though it may be, as appalling as I do. Then suppose that a more liberal president were elected who stopped funding any clinic that advocated infant female genital mutilation. Would you oppose that as a "Gag rule" and demand that the funding be restored? I doubt it. I hope not. It all depends on whose ox is being gored, and whose principles are being violated. I know that you don't believe that the unborn child is a full human being. That's fine. But I do think you need to understand the point of view of those who do, and respect that they are following their beliefs just as you are following yours. Whose are right? We really don't know. We're all guessing here.