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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (12403)	4/25/2001 7:38:10 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 82486

So far, the only articles I've seen linking MT to suffering are of people who chose voluntarily to endure the suffering. People choose to endure suffering for many different reasons. Not that you or I chose it as children, but some adults choose not to get pain medication from the dentist. Some people who get tattoos choose to suffer pain in the belief that that they will -- well, I don't know why, but they choose to. People choose to suffer the pain of body piercing. People choose to suffer the pain of getting punched in a boxing ring or getting slammed in the line in football games. My son loved to play football. He enjoyed hitting and getting hit. To me it was weird, but the harder he hit and was hit, the more sore he was, the more he seemed to enjoy it. People choose the pain of ultimate sports. People believe in "no pain, no gain" and voluntarily undergo sometimes significant pain for the sake of a more shapely body. People choose to fire walk. Choosing to endure pain is a human trait. It wouldn't be my choice, but I'm not going to say that because I don't want to make that choice it's wrong or sick for others to make it. Although, come to think of it, some would say that some things I did during the civil rights and peace movements were intentional suffering for the sake of principle or belief, and I suppose they were. Others were beaten far more badly than I ever was, and went back on the lines the next day. Voluntary acceptance of pain and suffering on the basis of belief in a cause. Christians for 2,000 years have suffered for their faith. This is not something MT invented. Now, did she force people to suffer who tried to choose NOT to suffer? That, as I said before, would be a very different matter. But so far there has been no evidence of that. I suppose, just speculating, that it's possible she said to some "if you want to stay in this spiritual hostel you must agree to accept your pain, and if you don't want to do that you should go elsewhere." That's not particularly kind, IMO, but it's honest and, I think, fair given that she made no bones about what her principles were and what she was and was not doing. (Sort of like Harvard University refusing to let the homeless live in empty dorm rooms over vacations. Maybe it would be nicer if they would, but that's not their mission, so nobody condemns them for allowing homeless people to die on the streets when they have beds in their dorms not being occupied.) I have no idea whether she did this or not, just pure speculation. But I don't see that as impossible, either. So far I'm still waiting for someone to find a case where a person asked for available pain medication which would have been effective in relieving their pain and MT refused to give it to them because she made the decision it was better for their souls that they suffer. Still waiting.

To: Lane3 who wrote (12403)	4/25/2001 9:16:24 PM
From: The Philosopher	Respond to of 82486

Oscar Wilde on suffering: Anyone can sympathize with the sufferings of a friend, but it requires a very fine nature to sympathize with a friend's success.

To: Lane3 who wrote (12403)	4/26/2001 12:59:12 AM
From: hobo	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Some of us non-believers were raised as believers and well know both the glory and the stupidity of needless suffering. Those who see the glory outweighing the stupidity are welcome to suffer all they want. LOL !!! Yeah ! Let them burn in hell !! Long time no see [you argue] -g- Just testing my new super powerful Internet Connection... So I figured, the best way to test it is reading through some of the ..er... well, you know, posts from the hell on earth .. --I mean Boxing Ring Thread-- I see you are in fine form... good, give them hell... Now after the test is completed, I will go back to the trading threads and leave you to your ... arguing... Have fun [if you can] -g- ------ Now I can "click" faster through the posts I do not need to read.