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To: Maurice Winn who wrote (11070)	4/25/2001 10:12:26 PM
From: JohnG	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 34857

Maurice. Glad you corrected Puck on his effort to diss the Euroserf designation. Socialism and serfdom are closely related in that weak a docile, weak willed people give up a great deal of individual freedom for the illusion of security and in the end they can lose both their freedom and security.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (11070)	4/26/2001 8:14:21 AM
From: Puck	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 34857

A "serf" is owned by a "lord", not a government, as you imply. Your equation of "lord"="government" is nonsensical. My judgment of JohnG's continuous, incorrect, oxymoronic application of the word "serf" stands.

To: Maurice Winn who wrote (11070)	4/26/2001 5:38:07 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Respond to of 34857

OTP: Interesting to once again find how some dictionaries have troubles with realities. Sloppy sentences does of course help, although really dangerous in standards and contracts. "A social system in which the means of producing and distributing goods.." Is that at least one, some, few, plurality, majority, the median, typical, the average, mean,all?? "..are owned collectively and political power is exercised by the whole community." Does "the whole community" specify both "political power" and "owned collectively"?? Or is the crucial and just an and-function between everything on the left and the right ((...) and (...)) Is QCOM owned collectively?? Is USA a socialist state due to its army, police, courts?? Or is it enough to have some private armies, polices and courts not to qualify?? Ilmarinen P.S. When I was 16 it was interesting to try to figure out these things, luckily one doesn't stay 16 for more than one year. P.P.S. However, it is still interesting how the state controls the individual but much more interesting how the individual controls the state.