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Pastimes : Neocon's Seminar Thread -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Neocon who wrote (453)4/27/2001 12:46:18 AM
From: gao seng  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1112
 
Wow. i have only read the first two sentences and all I can say is I am flabbergasted. Awesome wisdom. It will take me weeks to digest this post, I am sure. In the meantime, I will have many questions.

Is Plato's divided line the entrance to the cave?



To: Neocon who wrote (453)4/29/2001 8:19:40 PM
From: gao seng  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1112
 
He is the Prime Mover because the yearning of the sphere of the fixed stars for perfection causes it to rotate in a never to be satisfied search for pure actuality

This is sort of like what I was trying to say. That is, that the world seeks to be perfect (or pure actuality) like God. But I wouldn't say it is endless.

Anyway I am still working on this.

Here is some encarta material from the scholatics to Martin Luther.

4 articles (or excerpts of), Grace, Pelagianism, original sin, Martin Luther

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IINTRODUCTION Grace, in Christian theology, unearned favor, freely bestowed by God on individuals who are thereby redeemed and sanctified. Grace (Hebrew hen) in this sense is mentioned in Hebrew Scripture. In the New Testament, grace (Greek charis) is associated almost exclusively with the figure of Christ. By Christ's atoning death, the limitless favor of God was revealed (see Atonement).
IIPELAGIUS AND AUGUSTINE The first theological conflict over the nature of sin and grace occurred in the late 4th century between St. Augustine and the British theologian Pelagius. Pelagius argued that every person is free to obey or disobey God. Everyone sins from time to time and needs the grace of God. In Pelagius's view, however, grace consists of God's having given the teachings and the example of Jesus, so that by grace one can know the right and good. One might further pray for God's grace as assistance in performing the good. Such grace is "resistible," however; one is free to refuse it. Pelagius regarded salvation as God's reward given for a life of freely chosen obedience.
Augustine agreed that God had created humanity free to obey or disobey him, but argued that the taint of original sin is transmitted to succeeding generations by the act of procreation. Humanity is therefore unable not to sin. Only the irresistible grace of God can free his creation from the power of sin, and that grace was given in Christ. It is made accessible to individuals through the ministry of the church and especially through baptism and the other sacraments (see Sacrament). Believers may still sin, but those whom God elects persevere and finally achieve salvation, not by their merit or good works, but by the triumphant grace of God (see Predestination).
IIITHE MIDDLE AGES Scholastic theologians, especially St. Thomas Aquinas, somewhat altered the Augustinian doctrine of grace, which they intended to affirm. Aquinas introduced a distinction between the realm of nature and the realm of the supernatural. The realm of nature, he argued, can be known by unaided reason. The realm of the supernatural can be understood only through the grace of God and by his gracious revelation of truth. Thus, Aquinas made room for both Aristotelian reason in the natural realm and traditional Augustinian theology in the supernatural realm. For him, reason is untainted by sin and yields adequate knowledge within its inherent limitations. Grace does not contradict or supersede nature, but perfects it.
The Scholastics also made a series of distinctions concerning the realm of grace itself. Grace belongs to the supernatural realm; yet an act of grace is necessary to elevate a person to the realm of grace. This is justifying grace, or grace of elevation (see Justification). It takes a further act of grace, called sanctifying grace, to make a person holy and sanctified and thus able to enter communion with God. In addition, there is gratuitous grace: God's grace cannot be bound to any predetermined channel. Grace may be permanent, as recognized in the steadfast, virtuous life of its recipient (habitual grace); it may also be received on rare occasions to allow certain extraordinary acts of obedience to God (actual grace).
Scholastic theology tied grace almost exclusively to the sacramental system. Grace, according to this doctrine, is infused by each of the seven sacraments, so that the proper kind of grace is available when needed.
IVTHE REFORMATION The 16th-century Protestant reformers dissociated grace to some extent from the sacraments. Both Martin Luther and John Calvin emphasized the personal quality of grace. For Luther, grace depends on a personal relationship with God and cannot be imparted to an individual apart from or against that individual's will. Calvin contended that grace is an irresistible force within the individual that frees the will from its natural bondage and is given only to those predestined by God for salvation.
Protestant reformers also rejected the Scholastic belief in the efficacy of unaided reason in the understanding of the natural realm. Luther and Calvin argued that all creation is corrupted by sin, including nature and reason as well as human will and feeling. Thus, they reverted to an interpretation of sin and grace more Augustinian than that of the Scholastics.
VMODERN DEVELOPMENTS Liberal Protestant thought in the 19th and early 20th centuries developed an optimistic and almost Pelagian view of human nature. After the disillusionment of World War I and its aftermath, however, the most influential Protestant theologians, including Karl Barth, Reinhold Niebuhr, and Paul Tillich, sought to recover a more Augustinian doctrine of sin and grace. This neoorthodox movement did not, however, revive Augustine's idea of the transmission of sin by procreation, and it retained the traditional Protestant emphasis on the personal quality of grace without denying the centrality of sacraments. The work of certain 20th-century Roman Catholic theologians, such as Karl Rahner and Hans Küng, moves in similar directions, under the influence of existentialism.

Contributed By:
Charles P. Price

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Pelagianism, in Christian theology, a rationalistic and naturalistic heretical doctrine concerning grace and morals, which emphasizes human free will as the decisive element in human perfectibility and minimizes or denies the need for divine grace and redemption. The doctrine was formulated by the Romano-British monk Pelagius, a man of considerable learning and austere moral character. About 390 he went to Rome, where, appalled by the lax morals of Roman Christians, he preached Christian asceticism and recruited many followers. His strict moral teaching had particular success in southern Italy and Sicily and was preached openly there until the death (circa 455) of his foremost disciple, Julian of Eclanum.
Pelagius denied the existence of original sin and the need for infant baptism. He argued that the corruption of the human race is not inborn, but is due to bad example and habit, and that the natural faculties of humanity were not adversely affected by Adam's fall. Human beings can lead lives of righteousness and thereby merit heaven by their own efforts. Pelagius asserted that true grace lies in the natural gifts of humanity, including free will, reason, and conscience. He also recognized what he called external graces, including the Mosaic law and the teaching and example of Christ, which stimulate the will from the outside but have no indwelling divine power. For Pelagius, faith and dogma hardly matter because the essence of religion is moral action. His belief in the moral perfectibility of humanity was evidently derived from Stoicism.
Pelagius settled in Palestine about 412 and enjoyed the support of John, bishop of Jerusalem. His views were popular in the East, especially among the Origenists (see Origen). Later, his disciples Celestius and Julian were welcomed in Constantinople (present-day Ýstanbul) by the patriarch Nestorius, who sympathized with their doctrine of the integrity and independence of the will (see Nestorianism).
Starting in 412, St. Augustine wrote a series of works in which he attacked the Pelagian doctrine of human moral autonomy and developed his own subtle formulation of the relation of human freedom to divine grace. As a result of Augustine's criticisms, Pelagius was accused of heresy, but he was acquitted at synods at Jerusalem and Diospolis. In 418, however, a council at Carthage condemned Pelagius and his followers. Soon afterward Pope Zosimus also condemned him. Nothing more is known of Pelagius after this time.

Contributed By:
Margaret A. Schatkin
________________________________

IINTRODUCTION Original Sin, in Christian theology, the universal sinfulness of the human race, traditionally ascribed to the first sin committed by Adam. Sin, in Christian doctrine, is considered a state of alienation or estrangement from God.
IISCRIPTURAL FOUNDATION The term original sin is not found in the Bible. Theologians who advocate the doctrine of original sin argue, however, that it is strongly implied by Paul (see Romans 7), by John (see 1 John 5:19), and even by Jesus himself (see Luke 11:13). Behind this New Testament teaching lies the world view of late Jewish apocalyptic writings. Some of these writings attribute the corrupt state of the world to a prehistoric fall of Satan, the subsequent temptation of Adam and Eve, and the immersion of human history thereafter in disorder, disobedience, and pain (see 2 Esdras 7). In this apocalyptic framework, Paul and other New Testament writers interpreted the work of Christ as overcoming the tremendous power of inherited sin and evil once and for all, reconciling humanity to God, and thus making peace.
IIIST. AUGUSTINE The decline and fall of Rome in the late 4th and early 5th centuries produced a similar apocalyptic atmosphere of crisis and despair. In his controversy with the Romano-British monk Pelagius over the nature of sin and grace, Augustine was able to appeal powerfully and effectively to the Pauline-apocalyptic understanding of the forgiveness of sin (see Pelagianism). In his elaboration of the doctrine, however, Augustine imported an idea foreign to the Bible: the notion that the taint of sin is transmitted from generation to generation by the act of procreation. He took this idea from the 2nd-century theologian Tertullian, who actually coined the phrase original sin.
IVSUBSEQUENT THEOLOGY Medieval theologians retained the idea of original sin, with certain qualifications. It was asserted again in a more recognizably Augustinian form by 16th-century Protestant reformers, primarily Martin Luther and John Calvin. In subsequent Protestant thought, the doctrine was diluted or circumvented. Liberal Protestant theologians developed an optimistic view of human nature that was incompatible with the idea of original sin. The extended crisis of Western civilization that began with World War I, however, has aroused renewed interest in the original, basically apocalyptic, outlook of the New Testament and in the doctrine of original sin. Such neoorthodox or postliberal theologians as Karl Barth, Reinhold Niebuhr, and Paul Tillich, however, were unwilling to attribute the transmission of sin to procreation, instead attributing it to an already corrupt society.

Contributed By:
Charles P. Price
_________________________________

THEOLOGY Luther was not a systematic theologian, but his work was subtle, complex, and immensely influential. It was inspired by his careful study of the New Testament, but it was also influenced in important respects by the great 4th-century theologian St. Augustine.
ALaw and Gospel Luther maintained that God interacts with human beings in two ways-through the law and through the Gospel.
The law represents God's demands-as expressed, for example, in the Ten Commandments and the golden rule. All people, regardless of their religious convictions, have some degree of access to the law through their consciences and through the ethical traditions of their culture, although their understanding of it is always distorted by human sin. The law has two functions. It enables human beings to maintain some order in their world, their communities, and their own lives despite the profound alienation from God, the world, their neighbors, and ultimately themselves that is caused by original sin. In addition, the law makes human beings aware of their need for the forgiveness of sins and thus leads them to Christ.
God also interacts with human beings through the Gospel, the good news of God's gift of his Son for the salvation of the human race. This proclamation demands nothing but acceptance on the part of the individual. Indeed, Luther argued that theology had gone wrong precisely when it began to confuse law and Gospel (God's demand and God's gift) by claiming that human beings can in some way merit that which can only be the unconditional gift of God's grace.
BSin Luther insisted that Christians, as long as they live in this world, are sinners and saints simultaneously. They are saints insofar as they trust in God's grace and not in their own achievements. Sin, however, is a permanent and pervasive feature in the church as well as in the world, and a saint is not a moral paragon but a sinner who accepts God's grace. Thus, for Luther, the most respected citizen and the habitual criminal are both in need of forgiveness by God.
CThe Finite and Infinite Luther held that God makes himself known to human beings through earthly, finite forms rather than in his pure divinity. Thus, God revealed himself in Jesus Christ; he speaks his word to us in the human words of the New Testament writers; and his body and blood are received by believers (in Luther's formulation) "in, with, and under" the bread and wine in Holy Communion (see Eucharist). When human beings serve each other and the world in their various occupations (which Luther called vocations) as mothers and fathers, rulers and subjects, butchers and bakers, they are instruments of God, who works in the world through them. Luther thus broke down the traditional distinction between sacred and secular occupations.
DTheology of the Cross Luther asserted that Christian theology is the theology of the cross rather than a theology of glory. Human beings cannot apprehend God by means of philosophy or ethics; they must let God be God and see him only where he chooses to make himself known. Thus, Luther stressed that God reveals his wisdom through the foolishness of preaching, his power through suffering, and the secret of meaningful life through Christ's death on the cross.

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To: Neocon who wrote (453)4/30/2001 1:13:12 PM
From: Neocon  Read Replies (2) | Respond to of 1112
 
Okay, the World After Hegel:

One may roughly divide the immediate post- Hegelian division as Marxist, existentialist, positivist, pragmatist, and Neo- Thomist.

Marx, of course, took the position that the interplay between man and the world, primarily through the organization of labor, led to a dynamic of self- realization among humanity that would have the practical effect of Hegel's "absolute standpoint", permitting man to fullfill himself as a species. Unlike Hegel, who more or less identified the Absolute with a Spinoza- ish version of God, Marx was a materialist, but a materialist who made a great deal out of the Epicurean idea of freedom originating out a random factor in the material world. This "micro- spontaneity" permitted the negation, or questioning, of the prevailing social order, and therefore eventual transcendence, through revolution, until all oppression was finally obliterated.

Kierkegaard regarded the weak point of Hegelianism as its analysis of revelation and Christianity, which are assimilated into the progress of the Idea of Freedom, which is announced as the engine of history by Hegel. The actual questions of Christ's incarnation, death, and resurrection, and their bearing on eternal happiness, are rendered trivial with the System. What is important is the effect on social and cultural development. Kierkegaard considers this bogus, as if an individual can wholly set aside the question of his eternal happiness and "get on" with the System. The fact is, we philosophize as individuals, and care deeply about various issues, and therefore cannot have an Absolute standpoint, as if we were the World Spirit. If the idea of the Absolute standpoint is bogus, because we remain mired in subjectivity, than Hegel has merely performed an elaborate, beautiful, suggestive game, but not achieved his goal.

For Nietzsche, a different problem loomed. He considered that from a cultural perspective, God was dead, that the intelligentsia did not believe, for the most part, and that belief was being eradicated at all levels of society gradually. He recognized this as a crisis, since that meant that there was no objective basis for Truth, Beauty, and the Good, as the universe was no more than a haphazard place, without intelligence and intentionality underlying phenomena. Instead of Truth, there was interpretation, which was always a compromise between reason and are deepest drives as individuals.Nietzsche constantly reiterated that he was expounding his truth, not that he didn't believe it, but that it had no independent warrant. To him, the task, then, was to find an escape from nihilism, by constructing a society that was strong enough to look the Abyss in the face, and to find its own way out of its own subjective sense of vitality. Despairing of forging such a society anytime soon, he envisioned the Superman, a being who could see the pointlessness of it all and embrace it, who could say "Yes!" to existence, and find sufficiency in his own adventure.

The positivists would admit nothing as true except what had been verified by the empirical sciences, or were provisionally acceptable to their worldview, such as demythologized history. They held that all metaphysical questions were invalid, as they addressed hypotheticals not in evidence according to scientific norms, and that ethics was a branch of sociology, where we study the ways that societies work in order to improve them in efficiency and stability. There are no universal ethical norms, although there might be better or worse ways to organize society.

The pragmatists questioned whether much of anything was true, rather than convenient to believe. Pierce, who practically invented pragmatism, was even willing to entertain metaphysical questions, but his method was to ask what was better to believe, rather than what was true. William James published "Varieties of Religious Experience" to suggest that there was something to spirituality, but that different individuals profitted from different types of beliefs. Dewey founded the Teacher's College of Columbia University with the idea that facts and skills were less important than democratic acculturation, teaching cooperation and collective decision- making and the worth of various occupations, as well as "skills for life", like making change or using the post office. Of course, there were no clear criteria for what might be a good belief, but the pragmatists figured that social consensus sufficed to formulate a view of common decency around the idea of human desires and the need for sociability.

Neo- Thomism was originally quite literally a revival of interest in Thomism, largely within Catholic circles, with a view to addressing its applicability to modern problems. Since Aquinas himself had modified Aristotle in a way that made certain themes less "wedded" to Aristotle's cosmology, it seemed the better philosophical starting point, even to some non- Catholics. The idea of the existence of God was the foundation, and then it was presumed that through the process of generalization and abstraction from sensory data one could discern something of the order of the cosmos, and therefore know metaphysical and ethical truths unaided by revelation, since the order of the cosmos should be revealing.

We are now up to the 20th century. I will need at least one more post to finish.......



To: Neocon who wrote (453)5/1/2001 9:06:18 PM
From: gao seng  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 1112
 
Aquinas followed Aristotle in regarding perception as the starting point and logic as the intellectual procedure for arriving at reliable knowledge of nature, but he considered faith in scriptural authority as the main source of religious belief.

-- At this point I would say belief could be based on reason.

Descartes ...Thus, in a manner of speaking we could know God through reason and the examination of nature, which he supposed to be logical and based on a few premises.

Here Here!

Hegel used this insight to examine the development of phenomena in consciousness, in an attempt to show that there was progressive revelation, both historically and in the individual consciousness, and therefore a hypothetical endpoint where all that is rational about the object is comprehended. He argued that the standpoint of absolute knowledge was possible at his historical juncture, because history had essentially fulfilled itself.

--Say what? I would say he is reverting back to Aquinas, saying belief is based on faith, and that as time wears on and the stones speak (archeology) and prophecies come true, that reason allows one to believe in religion without faith. Is that the same as revelation?

But, the door is wide open now. I can see it.

I really appreciate your posts. And looking forward to reading your recent one on post-Hegel. I have stated on SI before that I believe that the Declaration of Independence is the pinnacle of philosophy, and has gone down hill ever since. Basically a dead art. Dead because it is entirely devoid of God. I will engage the article with an open mind however. When I was younger I read "Judas My Brother" by Yerby. A great challenge to a person's faith, I think. But I feel I read it with an open mind, and that the meat just wasn't there to compel a change of belief. Not that I view your post as threatening! Lol. Just saying I am open minded.

Please do not hesitate to flame me for being a bone-head. Growing up with a name like Walter, I have a rather thick skin.