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Politics : Formerly About Applied Materials -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: norm chin who wrote (46443)	5/8/2001 7:32:53 PM
From: Gottfried	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Norm, OT *** unions I'm not a union member now but still stand by what I said. Gottfried

To: norm chin who wrote (46443)	5/8/2001 11:31:08 PM
From: Katherine Derbyshire	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

>>Undoubtedly, unions do offer member workers some protection (including those you mentioned). For this, consumers pay dearly and in my opinion is simply not worth it.<< Not worth it to whom? To the consumers (most of whom are themselves workers), or to the society as a whole? You might want to read some of the history of the union movement and learn a bit more about typical pre-union working conditions. Just to give one relatively minor example (from the Pennsylvania steel mills), what are the implications for democracy if a company can say, "If candidate X doesn't win this precinct, don't bother coming to work tomorrow?" Yes, unions have been guilty of many abuses. But it's important to remember that they exist in the first place because of equally dramatic abuses by employers. No, I am not a union member. Katherine

To: norm chin who wrote (46443)	5/10/2001 1:10:52 AM
From: Pete Young	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 70976

Undoubtedly, unions do offer member workers some protection (including those you mentioned). For this, consumers pay dearly and in my opinion is simply not worth it. Gee Norm, "us" consumers and investors can then live in non-union "paradises" like the Third World, where there are no protections for the individual at work, the citizen's health, the small investor (if, indeed there are such people), and little support for infrastructure (education, R&D), transportation, energy, etc.). Yep, full on capitalism (anarchy) sure is great. (See Russia.) I like living in a middle class society where we are ruled by law, rather than by men. Middle class societies need to support their middle class with decent wages. Unions and government are the bulwark against the potentially destructive forces of the global market, that maintain the middle class. (The same forces that in other contexts are constructive.) I'm willing to pay more for everything in turn to have a chance to have a decent life as a citizen, worker, and investor. (PS, not unionized.)