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Politics : The Left Wing Porch -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Poet who wrote (4794)	5/13/2001 9:29:12 AM
From: Mac Con Ulaidh	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 6089

A different treaty problem ~ latimes.com

To: Poet who wrote (4794)	5/13/2001 10:34:04 AM
From: Mac Con Ulaidh	Respond to of 6089

News from home ~ Hope tells mourners to look for still waters and green pastures wherever they can find them in the Tenderloin, whether it's a fish tank in the lobby or a droopy plant by the elevator. That's the best way to walk through the day in the neighborhood that is home to six square blocks police call a kill zone. Tiffany died in spring with her arms folded over her chest. She was a movie star with no movie, a drag queen with legs from here to Houston who strutted down the Tenderloin streets in Versace and rhinestone shoes, cashmere and pearls. She was a transgender from Texas who never met a stranger and helped hundreds of the city's AIDS patients die, particularly those without families. A glamour-puss in black leather with frosted lipstick, Miss Tiffany, as she was called, was a minister in disguise. sfgate.com

To: Poet who wrote (4794)	5/13/2001 8:57:35 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 6089

Okay, I'll indulge you. <g> I doubt that the evidence in this case was withheld intentionally. There was a ton of evidence collected by many FBI offices and employees, and it's not surprising that some of it got lost or mislaid or not disclosed. I was involved with a document heavy case where we had about 20,000 pages of information total. Just managing all that paper was a major task. But it was nothing compared to all the stuff collected in the McVeigh case. There are some police departments that do intentionally withhold exculpatory evidence. But IMO, not that many. Most prosecutors, in my experience, take seriously their duties to make sure that trials are fair. Of course they grumble about how burdensome discovery is, and when the other side finds so much as a single document that inadvertently got omitted, they raise holy hell. But all in all, I don't find much of that going on intentionally. I have not much love for the FBI; I lean toward the conspiracists side of the argument on Waco and Ruby Ridge; but in this case I doubt it was intentional.

To: Poet who wrote (4794)	5/14/2001 6:59:40 AM
From: thames_sider	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6089

Here's an interesting recent article on the Oklahoma bombing: basically suggests the FBI kept the case to McVeigh to guarantee a conviction rather than risk confusing the guilt by sharing it... and reckons there is indeed a group behind him. independent.co.uk Death rarely works to stop the agenda of fanatics.

To: Poet who wrote (4794)	5/14/2001 7:49:26 AM
From: Greta Mc	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 6089

Good Morning, Your theory sounds as good as any other. I had a paranoid conspiracy filled moment myself: I thought what better way to change people's views on the death penalty than to take a high profile death penalty case, withhold some evidence, miraculously find the evidence right before the execution, thus causing doubts in the "system." But it was a fleeting paranoid moment. However, my belief in the death penalty was a belief that people who knowingly take the lives of others should pay the ultimate price themselves, based on a fair trial, lengthy appeals process, with all evidence being turned over to the defendant. And I still believe that. However, if the investigators and/or prosecution is withholding evidence from people facing this ultimate price, then the process fails and the risk of sending even one innocent person to their demise is not worth it. Of course, I was also recently disturbed when I saw a gentleman testifying before some Congressional committee: If my memory serves me well, he spent about 20-30 years behind bars, and the FBI had evidence the entire time showing he was not guilty, and he is now a free man. So, I guess it's those 2 cases which have caused me to rethink the process. Although it is amazing to me that it took the case of an animal like McVeigh, who admits his guilt and even has the gall to call 19 dead children "collateral damage," to shake my views on the death penalty process. Well, enough of that...it's time to focus on my pursuit of monetary gains. I hope you had a good mother's day. Greta