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To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (102183)	5/14/2001 9:35:20 PM
From: yard_man	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

welcome Art. I like solar and wind power, but they don't do much for me at night or when the wind isn't blowing. As such I think the capital costs are still a tad high on those ... no experience with nuclear and not sure about waste storage either. However, I do appreciate your comments on what it takes for a market. Some think all it takes is a magic incantation of that word with FREE in front and some lazy fairs <vbg>

To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (102183)	5/14/2001 10:07:03 PM
From: Don Lloyd	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Art - ...A free market also requires low cost, timely access to information, so that all the prices and factors driving prices are known to all buyers and sellers.... I'm afraid you've got it backwards. These are things that a central planner needs and will never possess. Everything needed by a free market driven by profit and loss is encapsulated in the price signal. Regards, Don

To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (102183)	5/14/2001 10:07:11 PM
From: Ilaine	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

You make some interesting points but you contradict yourself, I think. >>In an electric utility market, the capital requirements are so huge that entry is restricted to only a handful of companies.<< is contradicted by >> Beyond that are a host of decentralized alternatives, such as wind and solar power, which are now competitive, at least in places where there is an adequate supply of sunshine and wind.<< I disagree with your assessment that natural monopolies do not exist in the free market. Of course they do - they evolve quite naturally. The "problem" is the maximum price that a natural monopoly can charge is higher than that which is necessary to cover costs and make a reasonable profit. Governments just hate to see that happen. More accurately, perhaps, consumers hate to see that happen, and turn to government for relief - - or maybe the government justs want a piece of the action. At any rate, in our country, we respond to natural monopolies with government regulation, not government ownership, at least not anymore. The free market solution to a natural monopoly is technological innovation - if there is a dollar to be made, some genius will think of a way to make it. Consumers pay more in the short run, but in the long run, technology always triumphs.

To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (102183)	5/14/2001 10:09:21 PM
From: Skeeter Bug	Respond to of 436258

>>which makes one wonder why some people want to REDUCE government taxes on gasoline and oil<< some want a simple transfer of wealth from taxpayer to gas company. i hear those x-mas parties this year will be grand and pete wilson and "w" will be living "large."

To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (102183)	5/14/2001 10:16:14 PM
From: LLCF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 436258

Great post.... just wondering... since there are no free markets in areas like telecom and air travel... why did that work so well?? Seems like it's a matter of 'how free' a market is optimal no? DAK

To: Art Bechhoefer who wrote (102183)	5/15/2001 8:05:50 AM
From: flatsville	Read Replies (3) \| Respond to of 436258

>>>...which argued that where no real free market exists, a regulated firm has a greater likelihood of outperforming an unregulated firm because regulation forces a company to take a longer term view of return on investment. Regulation is essential whenever there is no free market or only an imperfect free market.<<< The best our electricity free marketeers here on the board can offer us: In a real free market, more likely than not electricity would be generated and supplied by regionally-situated vertically-integrated monopolies, just as it was in the early days - and rural areas would be supplied by cooperatives, just as it was in the early days. Prices would no doubt be higher. A return to the bad old days of unregulated defacto monopolies. Brilliant. As though the abuses, accidents and reliability of service issues of the past would not reappear? They fail to recognize what gave rise to regulation in the first place. Yep, one giant leap backwards is what we need here. Everyone into the abysss in the name of "Free Markets!"