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To: westpacific who wrote (3706)	5/17/2001 10:35:37 PM
From: YourKing	Respond to of 74559

<One more iron to the fire, what with all those Americans losing their jobs to cheap labor overseas> More bullsh............

To: westpacific who wrote (3706)	5/18/2001 2:09:04 AM
From: TobagoJack	Respond to of 74559

Hi westpacific, <<... all work in the financial services industry, design software or become movie stars or sport stars, flip burgers ...>> I just got back from Beijing and a new old gadget caught my eye at a show ... A Taiwan Via (they bought the design and shop from the US about a year ago) manufactured Pentium III compatible microprocessor running fast (forgot how fast), on a Chinese motherboard, assembled in China, powered by Chinese Linux OS (official OS of China, as they seem to have a problem with Bill Gates). The China originated Linux dual-language applications (checked out word processing, organizer, spreadsheet) all work with Microsoft file formats. Presentation and database software will be out by summer. The firewall and anti-virus add-ons all seem to work properly. All-in package price at around RMB 9,000-13,000 (divide by 8.3 to get US$), depending on monitor, hard drive, DVD/CDROM and DRAM capacity. Chugs, Jay

To: westpacific who wrote (3706)	5/18/2001 9:27:12 AM
From: westpacific	Respond to of 74559

Trade Deficit Jumps by 16 Percent (This is what my brother-in-law is experiencing, Americans going broke and shipping money overseas). By MARTIN CRUTSINGER, AP Economics Writer Friday May 18 8:38 AM ET WASHINGTON (AP) - The U.S. trade deficit widened by a record amount in March as exports of U.S. aircraft and other manufactured goods fell while American purchases of foreign consumer goods from toys to clothing soared. The Commerce Department (news - web sites) said Friday that the trade imbalance jumped by 16.1 percent in March, to $31.2 billion. That represented a $4.3 billion widening from February's deficit of $26.9 billion, the largest one-month deterioration in trade on record. The overall deficit in March was the largest since a $33.3 billion January imbalance. Economists had been expecting the deficit to widen again following the unexpectedly big improvement in February, but not by such a large amount. The politically sensitive deficits with Japan and China both increased, as did the imbalances with much of the rest of the world. America's deficit with Mexico hit an all-time high. America's continuing trade problems represent a political challenge for President Bush (news - web sites), who is trying to overcome congressional resistance to granting him the negotiating authority he needs to strike a new free trade agreement with all the democratic nations in the Western Hemisphere, as well as to launch a new round of global trade talks. While the Bush administration argues that American companies have no choice but to compete in the global economy, critics contend that lowering trade barriers subjects American workers to unfair competition from low-wage countries with lax environmental standards. To support their case, the critics point to soaring trade deficits including last year's all-time high of $368.9 billion, up 39 percent from 1999. So far this year, the deficit is running at a slightly lower pace of $365 billion and many economists believe the deficit will improve this year as the slowing U.S. economy draws in fewer foreign goods. However, that pattern was not evident in March. Instead, imports, which had fallen sharply the month before, rebounded by 2.9 percent to $120.6 billion with the gains led by big increases in demand for foreign autos and other consumer goods. Exports, which had been up in February, edged down 1 percent in March to $89.5 billion. The weakness was led by a $1.6 billion decline in sales of capital goods, with shipments of telecommunications equipment down by $483 million and sales of commercial aircraft off by $310 million. The increase in imports was led by a sizable $2.7 billion rise in demand for consumer goods, which pushed imports in this area up to $25.3 billion, led by increased demand for toys, clothing, televisions and VCRs. Demand for foreign cars rose by $192 million to $15.4 billion. But imports of foreign oil fell by 5.3 percent to $9.1 billion, the lowest level since January 2000. The average price of a barrel of crude oil dipped to $22.76, the lowest since November 1999. The deficit with China jumped by 13.1 percent to $5.7 billion in March even though U.S. exports rose to $1.9 billion, the second highest level on record with that country. America recorded its biggest deficit last month with Japan, a $6.2 billion. Last year, for the first time, America's deficit with China surpassed the imbalance with Japan, which for more than two decades had been the country with the largest trade imbalance with the United States. The deficit with Mexico nearly doubled last month to a record $2.8 billion. The deficit with Canada, America's other partner in the North American Free Trade Agreement, edged down 2.9 percent in March to $4.3 billion. The deficit with the European Union (news - web sites) soared by 47.1 percent to $4.8 billion in March.

To: westpacific who wrote (3706)	5/18/2001 11:38:24 PM
From: LLCF	Respond to of 74559

<Oh but I forget, we can all work in the financial services industry, design software or become movie stars or sport stars, flip burgers - so no worries, whom needs manufacturing anyway!> You forgot the "kicker"... borrow cheap money from greenboink and buy stocks with it to make ends meet! DAK

To: westpacific who wrote (3706)	5/19/2001 8:12:36 AM
From: elmatador	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

The guys in these countries plants' destinations are also complaining: the -relatively- more modern technology is destroying jobs in those cheaper manpower countries. This because the more modern facilities -imported from the US and Europe- do not demand so much manpower. I think we should all go back to the 19th Century when everybody was employed in manufacturing.

To: westpacific who wrote (3706)	5/20/2001 4:28:25 PM
From: Doc Bones	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

Oh but I forget, we can all work in the financial services industry, design software...>> No, they've got software design covered too. The H1-B program brings 200,000 foreign workers a year into the U.S., with software work being by far the leading occupation. The high-tech industry, with the fervent backing of the entire American establishment, conjured up a phony programmer shortage, and has doubled the number of workers admitted twice in the last two years. The workers are here in an "indentured servant" status, completely dependent on their employers for a chance at the coveted green card, typically working long hours for low pay. Now that the high-tech industry is laying off tens of thousands, there are many articles about the plight of the foreign H1-B workers (and I sympathize with their problems), but not a peep in the press about the desperate situation of American programmers and engineers scrambling to find a job in this climate, or a suggestion that cutting back on this program might make sense. Even before the high-tech crash increasing numbers of H1-Bs were being denied green cards and forced back to their native countries. It has become clear that the high-tech industry wants them to return to India, e.g. (half of H1-Bs are from India), where they can be hired for about 10% of what they make here, with vital experience in American business. Dun & Bradstreet, leading a new trend, fired their American programmers, who had to train their replacements in order to get severance pay. The replacements were H1-Bs from India, who acted as liaisons with the main programming force back in India. Oh and the high-tech industry, with a supportive press, presents this as a program to "save American jobs," it's called "The American Competitiveness Act." For further rant, here is a "love letter" I sent to Congress, in the form of a paid ad in the Capitol Hill newspaper Roll Call numbersusa.com Doc (software engineer, retired) --------- for more criticism of H1-B: heather.cs.ucdavis.edu (Prof. Norman Matloff, our guru) colosseumbuilders.com (The Programmers' Guild - John Miano, pres.)