To: Greg or e who wrote (13812 ) 5/20/2001 2:16:07 PM From: 2MAR$ Respond to of 82486 " Biblical Nihilists ...The Bible has shown its historicity in repeated finds " More Biblical HIstory ? You might also like to revisit Jeffery Scheler's major piece in US News on : "In Search Of Christmas " usnews.com " Imagine a purer, less commercial, more spiritual Christmas------>But don't call it history .... " Most widely held is the view that the holiday was an intentional "Christianization" of Saturnalia and other pagan festivals. In the third and fourth centuries, the church in Rome found itself in fierce competition with popular pagan religions and mystery cults, most of them involving sun worship. From the middle of December through the first of January, Romans would engage in feasts and drunken revelry, paying homage to their gods and marking the winter solstice, when days began to lengthen. In A.D. 274, Emperor Aurelian decreed December 25--the solstice on the Julian calendar--as natalis solis invicti ("birth of the invincible sun"), a festival honoring the sun god Mithras. In designating December 25 as the date for their Nativity feast, says Restad of the University of Texas, Rome's Christians "challenged paganism directly." They also were able to invoke rich biblical symbolism that described Jesus as the "Sun of Righteousness" and God's "true light," sent to dispel darkness in the world. " Whatever their reasons, by assigning Christmas to late December, when people already were accustomed to celebrating, church leaders ensured widespread observance of the Savior's birth. But in doing so, says Nissenbaum, the church also "tacitly agreed to allow the holiday to be celebrated more or less the way it had always been." As one historian put it: "The pagan Romans became Christians--but the Saturnalia remained." So , how much else did they "slightly make up" and adjust? That the wisdom and sophistry inculcated into these Gospels , have every ring of a wonder~story of a mysterious wandering Hero/Teacher/Mystic/Sophist , who appears out of nowhere , telling parables and disseminating stories that were seeded with the wisdom of the Greek , Persian, Roman, philosophy and the creme of the Jewish , Egyptian , and Zoroastrian ... even Indian/Buddhist/Hindu beliefs that preceded , all rapt into one. A story born out of a self-fullfilling desire of all the peoples in the world at that time that had wearied of endless wars and longed so desperately for the Messiah or Sun King to come. So one was created. Have you heard of Aesop's Fables ? Ulysses ? Hercules ? Zoroaster ? Hamlet ? Cyrano De Begrerac ? So Greg , never once did one of the disciples ask of their Master : " Where were you born Master" ? "When were you Born Master" ? ...and never bother to mention it once in at least one of these " Gospels "? Think about it for awhile ...you are travelling along , with a man you revere , for months on the tracks in solitary places in the desert , and during those many nights together, not one of the fellows asked: "where & when were you born" Master ?... regards Mars