Unedited chatroom discussion regarding implications of recent nanotube breakthru...
<digs> sanman could you give some examples as to how these nanotubes can be used in 'a whole bunch of practical applications' ?
<MacroHard> digs, as a very strong raw building material
> kinda like concrete?
<sanman> digs
<MacroHard> make lighter guns for the army..
<MacroHard> lighter cars
<sanman> bulk materials made out of this stuff would be incredible strong
<sanman> furthermore, they would have incredible strength-to-weight ratios
> gotcha
<sanman> far far greater than existing materials
<sanman> imagine an oil supertanker's hull made out of this stuff
<sanman> the supertanker collides with a reef, but the hull doesn't rupture, it flexes
<sanman> imagine a space shuttle that doesn't weight hundreds of tons, but only a couple of dozen tons
> cool
<MacroHard> the example everyone always gives is a space elevator.
<MacroHard> it's strong enough that you could build a latter into space
> space elevatoir?
<MacroHard> ladder
<sanman> yeah, that space elevator thing would involve huge amounts of material, tho
> oic
<sanman> that's just a NASA dream
<sanman> imagine dams that could never break in an earthquake
<sanman> imagine building the world's longest bridge, across the English channel or Bering Strait
<sanman> you could build incredible structures, that were never possible before
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> interesting, thanks for the examples
<sanman> imagine much faster computer chips
> what about carbon fibers? could you offer a few in that realm as well
<sanman> those computer chips would use much less power, they would be much tinier, and they would be physically durable as well
> how could nanotubes make computer chips faster? i don't understand
> ^disregard
<sanman> well, as you can see, IBM is the one conducting the research in that experiment
<sanman> they're doing it for computer chips
<sanman> on that webpage
> yeah... how does optical computing fit into this then?
<sanman> nanotubes are much thinner than the existing circuit path tracings on current chips
<sanman> they can also be used to create transistors
> understood.
<sanman> they are much better conductors
<sanman> they are known as ballistic conductors
<sanman> that's the next best thing to being a superconductor
<sanman> and while superconductivity has only been observed at extremely low temperatures, nanotubes are ballistic conductors at regular room temperatures
> !ah scon
<tmpstkbt> SCON 4:02 PM 8.20 -0.300000191 -3.53% 8.02 8.75
<sanman> a ballistic conductor has a fixed resistance, based on its molecular structure, and that resistance level is independent of length
<sanman> meaning that a really long wire would have the same amount of resistance as a really short wire
<sanman> so while a ballistic conductor technically isn't a superconductor, they might as well be the same thing for all the practical difference it makes
<MacroHard> neat.
<sanman> imagine long power cables that supply electricity without significant power loss
<MacroHard> man.. people are so obsolete. robots will take over the world.
<sanman> nanotubes have incredible tensile strength -- 100 times stronger than steel
> <listening>
<sanman> you could make bulletproof vests or tank armor far stronger than anything possible today
> please address that question re carbon fibers when you get a chance
<MacroHard> carbon filbers have been around a while
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<MacroHard> I guess it's the same idea except carbon fibers are much bigger than nanotubes
<sanman> yeah, carbon fibers are the current state of the art
<sanman> right, and nanotubes are much stronger than carbon fibers
<MacroHard> (as far as using them for building things goes)
<sanman> a single nanotube can take microNewtons of force to break
<sanman> and it's just a tiny molecule
> define micronewtons
<}XXX{> a whole micronewton!
<sanman> millionth of a newton
> define newton :)
<MacroHard> yea.. but it's really small.. you put a few nanotubes back to back and pretty soon that adds up to some serious force
<sanman> a newton is a kilogram per meter second squared
> k
<sanman> so that's why this experiment which aligns the nanotubes is a big breakthru
<sanman> because when you align them to all point in the same direction, that really adds up to a lot of strength
<sanman> nanotubes also have a high Young's Modulus
> what if they were cross-hatched?
> i suppose that is an impossibility
> dunno young's modulus?
<sanman> meaning that if you do manage to bend a material made of them, then the material will try to restore back to shape after you remove your bending force
<MacroHard> yea.. plus that's all they really need for building materials.. it probably isn't that close to being able to build transistors but if it's not perfect it's still good enough to build things with.
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> sanman, so that's what you mean by a supertanker whose hull flexes
<sanman> like I said, imagine an oil supertanker that collides with a reef, but the hull doesn't rupture, it flexes or bends instead, and then when you pull the tanker off the reef, the hull will restore back into shape
<sanman> yeah, that's right
<sanman> nanotubes have the strongest tensile strength known to man
<sanman> they are 50% stronger than diamond
<sanman> diamond uptil now has been the title holder
<sanman> but diamond is brittle, and can fracture if you subject it to enough force
> they're gonna need a new hardness scale! :)
<sanman> you couldn't build a supertanker hull out of diamond
<sanman> heh, yeah
<sanman> because a diamond hull would shatter, if it hit the reef
> <nod-of-acknowledgement>
<sanman> the nanotubes don't do that, they're like cables
<MacroHard> you could make bullets with it
<sanman> you could make armor with it
<MacroHard> with depleated uranium in the center. :)
<sanman> or bulletproof vests
<MacroHard> for weight
<sanman> nanotubes can also stand up to high heat
<sanman> they are excellent thermal conductors
<sanman> if you try and apply heat to a nanotube material, the nanotubes will quickly transmit the heat, and spread it across the entire material
<sanman> so the heat won't build up in one spot as easily
<MacroHard> heatskink!
<MacroHard> sink
<sanman> now you know why diamonds are so cold to the touch
<sanman> they do the same thing
<MacroHard> unless they're warm
<sanman> well, like I said, they lose their heat very quickly, because they transmit it
<sanman> but yeah, they're thermal conductors
> sanman what can you say about the cost of these nanotubes... are they economical?
<MacroHard> since noone has developed a large scale process to make them, who knows..
<sanman> right now, they cost like $100-$500 per gram to buy, but that's cause the stuff is only being produced in labs
<}XXX{> 10 billion
> yeah i'm wondering how feasible that is
<}XXX{> per inch
<sanman> nobody has bothered to make a factory yet
<sanman> if you made a factory, you could produce them in bulk, to drastically lower the cost to a few dollars per kig
<sanman> kg
<sanman> there is a bulk-manufacturing process being investigaged
<sanman> investigated
<sanman> it's called the HiPCO process
<MacroHard> build a giant nanotube dome over the US to protect from missiles! hahah
<sanman> High-Pressure Carbon Monoxide process
<sanman> produces 97% yield by weight
<MacroHard> put some of those trillions of $ to good use.. :)
<}XXX{> unfortunately the workers in the plant all die after a few hours
<sanman> well, you could build all sorts of incredible structures
<sanman> you could build domes under the sea
<sanman> you could build the world's longest bridges
<sanman> the world's tallest skyscrapers
<MacroHard> }XXX{, it'd have to have skylights obviously. :)
<sanman> the world's largest ships
<}XXX{> cool!
<}XXX{> lull them into a false sense of security
<sanman> the world's biggest submarines
<MacroHard> plus.. no more rain!!!
> nanotubes make atlantis a reality --- reuters
<sanman> the world's largest aircraft
<MacroHard> except where you want it
<}XXX{> CO settles low. it is heavier than air
<MacroHard> you could control the weather
<sanman> imagine an aircraft that can seat a couple of thousand people, and not just a few hundred
<sanman> nanotubes have other amazing properties
<sanman> they can adsorb large quantities of hydrogen
<MacroHard> I think being able to make small transistors is one of their most important uses, but that's probably a long way off.
<sanman> would make them really good for hydrogen storage, for fuel cells
> !q plug
<sanman> the hydrogen atoms stick to the surface of the nanotubes, and nanotubes have high surface area
<tmpstkbt> PLUG 35.40 5/25/2001 3:59PM +2.15 34.75 37.35 34.29 2549100
<sanman> this means that you don't have to store hydrogen as a gas or liquid
<sanman> it's not safe to store hydrogen gas, and storing it as a liquid means you have to put it under extremely high pressure and very low temperature
<}XXX{> sticking easily sounds like hard to remove from follows
<MacroHard> yea.. how do you get it out? :)
<sanman> well, just like you do with existing fuel cells
<sanman> existing fuel cells store the hydrogen in metal hydride lattices
<MacroHard> it might work in reverse with your fuel cell sucking all the power into the battery to attach more hydrogen
<sanman> well, I admit I don't know exactly how the existing metal hydride storage lattices work, but nanotubes work the same way
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<Ax> !q LU
<Hutchison> !f
<tmpstkbt> LU 9.40 5/25/2001 4:01PM -0.13 9.27 9.50 9.14 19459000
<tmpstkbt> Chicago Mercantile Exchange
<tmpstkbt> GLOBEX PRICES AS OF 05/25/01 03:24 PM
<tmpstkbt>
<tmpstkbt> CONTRACT LAST NET CHGE
<tmpstkbt> S&P 500 JUN01 1294.00 -50
<tmpstkbt> E-MINI JUN01 1279.50 -1500
<tmpstkbt> SEP01 1295.75A -1550
<}XXX{> !q ala
<tmpstkbt> NSDQ100 JUN01 2008.00 +200
<tmpstkbt> E-NASDAQ JUN01 1970.00 -3750
<MacroHard> I thought most fuel cells just stored the fuel as liquid
<tmpstkbt> ALA 28.11 5/25/2001 4:00PM -1.35 27.80 28.20 27.16 3350100
<Hutchison> !q lmt
<tmpstkbt> LMT 38.00 5/25/2001 4:01PM -0.85 38.70 38.70 37.85 1308700
<}XXX{> pummeled
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<MacroHard> !ah nt lu
<tmpstkbt> NT 4:00PM 14.60 -0.449999988 -2.99% 14.03 16.24
<tmpstkbt> LU 4:51 PM 9.43 -0.0999994278 -1.05% 9.37 9.42
<MacroHard> !news lu
* MacroHard wonders if lu is going ch11 yet...
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<}XXX{> !q orch
<tmpstkbt> ORCH 7 5/25/2001 4:01PM +0.03 7.13 7.15 6.75 511300
<}XXX{> !q cra
<tmpstkbt> CRA 45.15 5/25/2001 4:01PM -0.26 45.45 45.45 43.83 311300
> sanman thanks for the discussion... its good to be young
<MacroHard> !mcap lu nt
<tmpstkbt> MCAP for lu: 32.015B
<tmpstkbt> MCAP for nt: 46.516B
> will be interesting to see how some of this stuff plays out
<MacroHard> !mcap ala
<tmpstkbt> MCAP for ala: 34.558B
<sanman> well, I can imagine that people will rush to get this stuff fully working
<MacroHard> !news nt
<MacroHard> maybe.
<sanman> because like I said, they're being heavily investigated for the computer applications
<sanman> the miniature circuits
<sanman> and that type of research is usually intense, and they need results within a few years
<sanman> before this breakthru happened, they were saying maybe 10 years
<sanman> but this breakthru has really accelerated things
<sanman> it's a major step forward
<MacroHard> yeah. hugely powerful computers running AI simulations..
<sanman> hugely powerful low-power portable computers
<MacroHard> well.. as technology starts to help more in designing it's own sucessor technologies we could start seeing exponential growth..
<MacroHard> you wake up one day and overnight the computers just finished another 1000 years worth of research.. ;)
<sanman> there are other amazing properties of nanotubes
<sanman> if you charge them in an aqueous solution of ions, then they can expand
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<sanman> by doing this, you can get them to expand and contract like a muscle fiber
<sanman> but nanotubes generate far more force than a natural muscle fiber, and use far less energy to do it
<sanman> and nanotubes are far smaller than muscle fibers
<sanman> so you could make synthetic muscles with incredible strength
<MacroHard> cool
<sanman> the applications for robotics would be tremendous
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