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To: Ilaine who wrote (3945)	5/28/2001 9:34:15 PM
From: JHP	Respond to of 74559

..Anyone who has the ability to build the technology is going to build it. We're just doing it first. I am sure the Chinese and Russians are working on it.. Dashele(SP?) says no way

To: Ilaine who wrote (3945)	5/28/2001 9:55:13 PM
From: TobagoJack	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 74559

Hi CB, As I have said throughout my consistent view … all societies necessarily develop at their own pace, not to be hurried, not to be impeded, not to result in a Russian democracy, not to suffer as an Indian capitalism. Forget my reference to India, lest we start a new controversy:0) I have learned a lot over the holiday weekend, starting by answering your question on Taiwan, promising to be controversial. Well, we have succeeded, I think. On the matter about vegetarianism, seems reasonable, given that we seem to be having trouble with beef, port, lamb, chicken, and reef fish. On the matter about you not buying “Made in China” goods, more problematic. I opened up my Sony Vaio, and looked at the parts … oops. I dig into a pack of imported Japanese Wasabi for my sushi, and … oops again. I look under the hood of a VW, at the wire harnesses, and … When in Latin America and South Africa, I look at the VW engine, and … I look at the motor winding cage in small power tools and automatic windows for most cars in the world … The natural and logical consequence of not buying Made in China goods should be also not buying goods made by companies selling a godly portion of their outputs to China. <<Diego Garcia … worst human rights abuse you can accuse the US of, that makes me feel pretty good>> No, it is not, as the Chinese government has compiled a long list in response to something or other the US produced. I have not read it, as it would be a waste of my time. Diego Garcia was a story I read in Financial Times. As I noted to KastelCo … <<So, rather than passing judgment on right and wrong, which clouds the picture for solutions, I prefer to say “just is, and now what can be done?”>> Maybe I am idealistic, but I believe unless we are willing to make a break with the past pattern of solutions and counter solutions, actions and reactions, not much can be accomplished that is not within our collective imagination, and what we can imagine is mostly not very good. The American experiment, back when it was new, was a bold experiment in sharply breaking with the past. Now, in China, a new experiment has been proceeding successfully for the last twenty years, and should, fortune willing, proceed for another twenty. I do not recognize much of the construct of today’s China from that of five years ago, much less twenty. I am very hopeful for the next twenty, then I will stop trying and do something else. You wait, I will do, and you will see:0) Chugs, Jay

To: Ilaine who wrote (3945)	5/28/2001 10:00:25 PM
From: Cogito Ergo Sum	Respond to of 74559

Hi Cobalt, I appreciate your point of view, and in fact I have a problem with our current government (in Canada) and their 'change through trade' policy. I have also wriiten my representative. Unfortunately, I believe that Jay's pragmatic approach is ultimately the only approach. I do not believe trade sanctions will work. Your grassroots approach is however admirable. regards Kastel

To: Ilaine who wrote (3945)	5/29/2001 3:44:53 PM
From: Andy Thomas	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 74559

--The violence that continues against the Tibetan people is wrong, and it's not a game. -- in my opinion, the situation in tibet - like any other - 'just is.' of all people, the tibetan buddhists should accept their karma - the results of the law of cause and effect. doesn't a buddhist believe that she brings everything which happens to her upon her own self, through the law of cause and effect - in other words, 'karma?' i think that buddhism - particularly in the u.s. - has become sugar-coated in this regard. i've heard it again and again; a buddhist will talk about cause and effect - karma - but the minute anything 'bad' happens to anyone, someone else is to blame. again, all of it is neither good nor evil - it simply 'just is.' do you know that at the center of everything there is always one constant? it's called suffering. that's real buddhism to me anyway. andy