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To: Saturn V who wrote (136367)5/30/2001 3:01:02 PM
From: Dan3  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 186894
 
Re: If a lot of developers share the same view, Itanium will reach the critical volumes fast. Once past a critical volume, the entire industry will gravitate to this platform and no one will invest in alternate platforms.

After the smashing success of the similar product and similar introduction of Intel's "RISC/SUN Killer" 860 family, how could it miss?

Remember the rave reviews?

Intel 860, "Cray on a Chip" . . .
The Intel 80860 was an impressive chip, able at top speed to perform close to 66 MFLOPS at 33 MHz in real applications, compared to a more typical 5 or 10 MFLOPS for other CPUs of the time. Much of this was marketing hype, and it never become popular, lagging behind most newer CPUs and Digital Signal Processors in performance.
The 860 has several modes, from regular scaler mode to a superscalar mode that executes two instructions per cycle and a user visible pipeline mode (instructions using the result register of a multi-cycle op would take the current value instead of stalling and waiting for the result). It can use the 8K data cache in a limited way as a small vector register (like those in supercomputers). The unusual cache uses virtual addresses, instead of physical, so the cache has to be flushed any time the page tables changes, even if the data is unchanged. Instruction and data busses are separate, with 4 G of memory, using segments. It also includes a Memory Management Unit for virtual storage.

The 860 has thirty two 32 bit registers and thirty two 32 bit (or sixteen 64 bit) floating point registers. It was one of the first microprocessors to contains not only an FPU as well as an integer ALU, but also a 3-D graphics unit (attached to the FPU) that supports lines drawing, Gouraud shading, Z-buffering for hidden line removal, and other operations in conjunction with the FPU. It was also the first able to do an integer operation, and a (unique at the time) multiply and add floating point instruction, for the equivalent of three instructions, at the same time (a FPU instruction bit indicated the current and next integer/floating-point pairs can execute in parallel, similar to the Apollo DN10000 CPU/FPU (also 1988) which had an integer bit which affected only the current integer/floating-point pair).

However actually getting the chip at top speed usually required using assembly language - using standard compilers gave it a speed closer to other processors. Because of this, it was used as a coprocessor, either for graphics, or floating point acceleration, like add in parallel units for workstations. Another problem with using the Intel 860 as a general purpose CPU is the difficulty handling interrupts. It is extensively pipelined, having as many as four pipes operating at once, and when an interrupt occurs, the pipes can spill and lose data unless complex code is used to clean up. Delays range from 62 cycles (best case) to 50 microseconds (almost 2000 cycles).

www3.sk.sympatico.ca

Actually, I guess this particular Intel triumph sounds more like P4 than Itanium. Itanium is closer to iapx432, which never really got out the door (so Itanium beat it by at least that much)

Intel 432, Extraordinary complexity (1980) . .
The Intel iAPX 432 was a complex, object oriented 32-bit processor that included high level operating system support in hardware, such as process scheduling and interprocess messaging. It was intended to be the main Intel microprocessor (some said the 80286 was envisioned as a step between the 8086 and the 432, others claim the 8086 was to be the bridge to the 432, rushed through design when the 432 was late and resulting in its many design problems). The 432 actually included four chips. The GDP (processor) and IP (I/O controller) were introduced in 1980, and the BIU (Bus Interface Unit) and MCU (Memory Control Unit) were introduced in 1983 (but not widely). The GDP complexity was split into 2 chips (decode/sequencer and execution units, like the Western Digital MCP-1600), so it wasn't really a microprocessor.
The GDP was exclusively object oriented - normal linear memory access wasn't allowed, and there was hardware support for data hiding, methods, inheritance, late binding, and access protection, and it was promoted as being ideal for the Ada programming language. To enforce this, permission and type checks for every memory access (via a 2 stage segmentation) slowed execution (despite cached segment tables). It supported up to 2^24 segments, each limited to 64K in size (within a 2^32 address space), but the object oriented nature of the design meant that was not a real limitation. The stack oriented design meant the GDP had no user data registers. Instructions were bit encoded (and bit-aligned in memory), ranging from 6 bits to 321 bits long (the T-9000 has variable length byte encoded/aligned instructions) and could be very complex.

The BIU defined the bus, designed for multiprocessor support allowing up to 63 modules (BIU or MCU) on a bus and up to 8 independent buses (allowing memory interleaving to speed access). The MCU did automatic parity checking and ECC error correcting. The total system was designed to be fault tolerant to a large degree, and each of these parts contributes to that reliability.

Despite these advanced features, the 432 didn't catch on. The main reason was that it was slow, sometimes up to five or ten times slower than a 68000 or Intel's own 80286. Part of this was the lack of local (user) data registers, or a data cache. Part of this was the fault-tolerant BIU, which defined an (asynchronous protocol) clocked bus that resulted in 25% to 40% of the access time being used by wait states. The instructions weren't aligned on bytes or words, and took longer to decode. In addition, the protections imposed on the objects slowed data access. Finally, the implementation of the GDP on two chips instead of one produced a slower product. However, the fact that this complex design was produced and bug free is impressive.



To: Saturn V who wrote (136367)5/30/2001 5:06:59 PM
From: Mary Cluney  Respond to of 186894
 
Saturn V,<<<I love your optimism.>>>

I am not an Intel cheerleader (John Hull can probably attest to that). It has nothing to do with making self fulfilling prophacies.

All you have to do is look at the market where Itanium is targeted - the size of it - and issues confronting those (customers) in that market. Then look at the competition. Finally, look at the Itanium architecture.

<<<If a lot of developers share the same view, Itanium will reach the critical volumes fast. Once past a critical volume, the entire industry will gravitate to this platform and no one will invest in alternate platforms>>>

IMO developers don't have much choice. Those who don't get on board from the start are going to have problems surviving - again IMO.

We can debate this till the cows come home, but the only way to really tell is to bookmark this - and come back in two years time.

You can look it up, but Tony Viola and I had a similar type debate back in 1996 - my contention was that IA was going to dominate IT the coming years. I didn't actually spell it out, that Intel servers would outsell all other servers by a wide margin - but that was what I was alluding to.

In the same way, I think Itanium is going to dominate IT - this time taking out RISC and IBM S390 completely in the next 5 years and to dominate IT for the next 25 to 50 years.

By the way, I don't believe Intel management themselves (Grove, Bryant, and Barrett) share the same view. Sometimes it is better to be lucky than to be good.

Mary