To: Greg or e who wrote (16201 ) 6/8/2001 2:04:23 PM From: Solon Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 82486 That is as clear as mud. Aren't you smuggling, an appeal to the golden rule, into a world that you claim, has no rules? I don't know what you are talking about. The world is full of rules, and I have never said otherwise. As far as the golden rule being similar to the concept of ahimsa , and the policy of empathizing with others, and of guiding your behaviour through reason--well, is this something new to you? As Rabbi Hillel said, long before the new testament: “What is hateful to yourself do not do to another. This is the whole Torah, go and study it, the rest is commentary.” Or in Buddhism (Udana-Varga, 5:18), "Hurt not others in ways that you yourself would find hurtful." In the analects of Confucianism (15:23) we have: "Do not unto others what you would not have them do unto you." In the Mahabharata (5:1517), "This is the sum of duty: Do naught unto others which would cause you pain if done to you." Lord Mahavir, the 24th Tirthankara said, "In happiness and suffering, in joy and grief, we should regard all creatures as we regard our own self." And, of course, Socrates: “Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others.” So you see, Greg--when you argue against the idea that empathy and reason should inform the consideration of a moral or immoral act--you are arguing against the reasoning of a long line of perceptive people . People did not need Yahweh in order to comtemplate ethics, and in order to live a moral lifestyle. You might want to consider how well the idea of a Chosen People fits with the statement of Socrates: “Do not do to others what would anger you if done to you by others.” It might be instructive for you to consider just what parts of the bible agree with the moral wisdom of other religions and philosophers--and what parts DON'T. If you do so, you will have whittled it down to a couple of pages of decent moral instruction--pages which you can read in a few seconds on a daily basis. Now--do you understand that the "golden rule" of Rabbi Hillel, Socrates, etc.--began with empathy and reason ?? I hope you finally understand how considerate, kind and moral behaviour is engendered, and why people have always been capable of it--regardless of which of the 4000 or so Gods they supped with . The rest of the world needs to have their morality put into doubt, and therefore their very integrity questioned, because they don't pull the same coat-tails you do? Think again.