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Politics : PRESIDENT GEORGE W. BUSH -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (152410)	6/12/2001 10:50:30 AM
From: dave rose	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

<<<I do not think there is an afterlife. But I know there is. Evidence? In a manner of speaking I am staring right at it. Right this minute. And it is reasonable. It is the only way I could have ever believed in a god. Ridicule me if it helps you sleep. I tell you something in me has a foot placed in a spiritual existence, such that I can now perceive that world clearly enough to live for it.>>> Faith is a wonderful thing!!!!!

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (152410)	6/12/2001 10:58:18 AM
From: PROLIFE	Respond to of 769670

NIce post, sir. Dan

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (152410)	6/12/2001 2:17:30 PM
From: goldworldnet	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 769670

U.S. Supreme Court OKs School Religious Meetings By ANNE GEARAN, Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - The Supreme Court lowered the wall between church and state Monday, ruling that if the Boy Scouts and 4-H can use a public school as a meeting hall, a children's Bible study class can, too. The ruling is part of the court's ongoing examination of the proper place for religion in public schools, a constitutional balancing act that has found schoolroom display of the Ten Commandments inappropriate but an evening series of Christian movies acceptable. Once the Milford Central School opened its doors to after-school civic meetings with a moral theme, the upstate New York school district could not exclude an evangelism club without violating First Amendment free-speech rights, the court ruled. ``We can see no logical difference in kind between the invocation of Christianity by the club and the invocation of teamwork, loyalty or patriotism by other associations'' that use the school building after hours, Justice Clarence Thomas (news - web sites) wrote for a 6-3 majority. The majority rejected the school's argument that allowing the Good News Club to meet in the school cafeteria would be an unconstitutional government promotion or establishment of religion. Justice Stephen Breyer (news - web sites), usually a moderate-to-liberal vote on the court, joined five more conservative members - Chief Justice William Rehnquist (news - web sites), and Justices Thomas, Sandra Day O'Connor (news - web sites), Antonin Scalia (news - web sites) and Anthony Kennedy (news - web sites) - in partial support of the religious club's request. Justices John Paul Stevens (news - web sites), Ruth Bader Ginsburg (news - web sites) and David Souter (news - web sites) dissented. Souter, writing for himself and Ginsburg, said the majority glossed over the club's intense focus on religious conversion. Leaders specifically invite children to be ``saved,'' Souter wrote. ``The majority avoids this reality only by resorting to the bland and general characterization of Good News' activity,'' as moral instruction, Souter wrote. The Milford school has allowed various outside groups to use its building since 1992, the Boy Scouts, Girl Scouts and 4-H Club among them. Parents Stephen and Darleen Fournier sued the school in 1997, after they were denied permission to use the cafeteria for weekly meetings of 6- to 12-year-olds. The meetings, featuring a Bible lesson, prayer and memorization games using Scripture, were tantamount to religious worship and thus inappropriate for a public school building, the school superintendent said then. The school district's lawyers also argued that very young children attending the 3 p.m. Good News Club meetings on school grounds might believe the school endorsed the club's religious outlook. The club first won and then lost federal court permission to use school space. Last year, the 2nd U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals (news - web sites) ruled against the club, calling its activities ``quintessentially religious.'' As a practical matter, the high court's ruling means schools will have to be evenhanded when allowing outside groups to use school buildings, administrators said. ``When they make a decision to give access to some groups, the implication of this decision is that they are not able to deny access to groups like the Good News Club,'' said David Ernst of the New York State School Boards Association. ``The Supreme Court decision represents an important victory for the First Amendment and sends a powerful message that religious organizations must receive equal treatment,'' said Jay Sekulow, chief counsel of the conservative American Center for Law and Justice. Barry Lynn, director of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, called the decision a ``terrible mistake.'' ``The court's ruling means aggressive fundamentalist evangelists have a new way to proselytize school kids.'' The court has not traced a straight path on the question of religion in public schools. The justices banned organized prayer during class hours in the early 1960s, and the Ten Commandments display in 1980. In the past decade the court has banned clergy-led prayer at high school graduation ceremonies and student-led prayer at high school football games. But the court also ruled in 1993 that a New York public school must let a religious group use its building in the evening to show Christian movies, and ruled in 1995 that a public university could not deny funding to a Christian publication. The justices have also allowed taxpayer-funded computers and remedial help by public school teachers at religious schools. The case is The Good News Club v. Milford Central Schools, 99-2036. - On the Net: Supreme Court: supremecourtus.gov dailynews.yahoo.com * * *

To: Johannes Pilch who wrote (152410)	6/12/2001 3:39:16 PM
From: J_F_Shepard	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 769670

JP re:"Well now I don’t think I have ever claimed to have the universe “all figured out.” I claim there is One who in fact has it all figured it out." First of all, thanks for trying to answer my questions but unfortunately you've raised more than you've answered. You claim there is One god...would this be the same one for Christians, Jews, Muslims, etc? Is there a devil, is Christ a god, are there lesser gods such as angels, archangels. How did you reach the conclusion that there is one god? From you childhood upbringing or did you learn it from personal study from something like the bible or koran or did you spend a lot of time lying on a beautiful hillside staring out at the universe? re:"There is not a thing I can do for you, and the famous men and women of history are generally dead. So it is really quite a hopeless matter in both cases. I ain't God." Many famous men and women who don't believe are still living and though you "ain't God", you seem to know him or her (is there a gender in your mind?) I think you'll agree that virtually all believers refer to god in the masculine sense. re:" What does God look like? He looks like utter boundlessness, like anything, including nothing. Now that is as clear a description I can give you while I’m trapped within this body and while you are trapped within yours." OK peace be with you if that is what you have concluded and if that's what gives you solace, but your vision doesn't seem to come from any religious sources I am familiar with (and I am not familiar with many). I also noticed you referred to your utter boundless, like anything, including nothing god as he.... re:"No. I do not think there is an afterlife. But I know there is. Evidence? In a manner of speaking I am staring right at it. Right this minute. And it is reasonable. " Sorry, but it's this sort of dogmatic speech that sounds so incredulous to me.....and I don't mean to ridicule you, but thank you for trying.....