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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (16534)	6/12/2001 1:27:09 PM
From: Neocon	Respond to of 82486

That nails it pretty well.....

To: Lane3 who wrote (16534)	6/12/2001 2:02:32 PM
From: Lane3	Read Replies (2) \| Respond to of 82486

Correction. Meant to say good treason, not good terrorism, since that is what we were taking about. "Good" treason [not terrorism] can only occur when the people have no voice or have exhausted all legal remedies. If you think that's the case hereabouts, you have no sense of proportion. We have mechanisms in this country for raising and resolving such issues. Use them. Until you've exhausted all avenues, if you take violent steps, you're nothing but a megalomaniac and a terrorist.

To: Lane3 who wrote (16534)	6/12/2001 2:03:38 PM
From: The Philosopher	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

"Good" terrorism can only occur when the people have no voice or have exhausted all legal remedies. If you think that's the case hereabouts, you have no sense of proportion. We have mechanisms in this country for raising and resolving such issues. Use them. Until you've exhausted all avenues, if you take violent steps, you're nothing but a megalomaniac and a terrorist. Well, yes and no. What avenue for recourse do Koresh and the people who died with him have? What avenue for recourse do Randy Weaver's wife and children have? What genuine avenue for recourse do the people whose liberties are invaded in the name of the drug war have? Especially if they are poor? What about the well documented acts of the IRS in destroying, wrongly, innocent peoples lives? They finally got so bad that Congress was forced to act. But they went on for years and years and there was no recourse for those who were mauled by the "system." IMO, our government has become so big and so distant from the people that the concepts of control and recourse, for people of average means, are pretty much illusory. I work inside the justice system, and I see how difficult it can be just to get minor transgressions remedied. These are problems that the framers foresaw, and warned against, but aren't heeded today. As Jefferson said, the tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots. Not that I think McVeigh was a patriot. But if he had chosen another course, another target, I might be prepared to make that argument. After all, the colonists hadn't exhausted all remedies when they took to the streets and the fields. Sure the Declaration of Independence lists grievances, but there were steps they could, in theory, have taken, avenues they could, in theory, have pursued. I think something less than what you require may be sufficient cause for resistance. We were warned years ago. Ever read the book "A Nation of Sheep?" Jefferson warned against the danger of the love of money overtaking the love of freedom. He was prescient. Even after Ruby Ridge, Waco, and many other cases our government still isn't shaken up. And won't be as long as Congress remains cossetted in a feather bed of money and lobbyists and special interests. There is a rot at the core of our nation. McVeigh was on to that, I think. His response wasn't the right one, but his perception of the problem may well have been.