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Pastimes : G&K Investing for Curmudgeons -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Apollo who wrote (15117)6/16/2001 3:18:04 PM
From: Eric L  Read Replies (1) | Respond to of 22706
 
ca,

<< I've never seen so many meaningless and twisted stats before, >>

Whoa. What curmudgeon is twisting fact here? Mudge Apollo methinks.

The fact is that Allen Iverson led the NBA in scoring this year. He was the leading scorer in the playoffs, and he was the leading scorer in the Lakers v. Sixers Series.

That is an absolute fact. You have to "twist" stats to alter it.

We are not talking about League MVP, that was Iverson. We are not talking about playoff MVP which was most deservedly won by Shaq, without question.

In the final series Iverson shot .407% from the field and "scored" 178 points (35.6 PPG) to 165 points (33.0 PPG) for Shaq, and 123 points (24.6 PPG) for Kobe, who shot .415% from the floor.

The one two punch of Shaq & Bryant outscored Iverson and Mutombo 288 (144 PPG) to 262 (131 PPG) and that was a huge scoring differential, that combined with the Lakers rebounding advantage that took away some portion of the potential conversion opportunity the Sixers are used to enjoying off Iverson putting the ball up, on > 50% of his shots.

Perhaps more importantly, and accounting for the above, the top 3 Lakers rebounders outbounded the top 3 Sixers (one of whom was 6' Iverson) 146 (49 RPG) to 122 (41 RPG). Big differential and that took away some portion of the potential conversion opportunity the Sixers are used to enjoying off Iverson putting the ball up, on > 50% of his shots.

There was a better "team" - a much better "team" - on the floor for the 5 games of the series than the Sixers fielded. The Sixers brought the "game" that almost got then the best record in the league this year, before the late season injury slump. and the Lakers streak in the final games of the season. They didn't bring the team that got them there. A contributing Aaron McKie or George Lynch would have even the table a bit, but might well have not have made a difference in the series. It would have made a difference however. in what you call Iverson "missed opportunities", because conversions of those are what make the Sixers game. PPG & RPG would have had a smaller differential.

As for field goal percentages Shaq shot ,573% to Dikembe's .600%, and Bryant shot .415% to Iverson's .407%.

On the line, Kobe shot a sizzling .842% to Iverson's .729%, Dikembe's .692, and Shaq's .513%

<< you continue to exaggerate when you intimate Iverson sinks crucial free throws, as a great scorer. He didn't sink them when he precisely had to, in this series. >>

I'll agree that he could have sunk more, however no missed or sunk FTs really decided the outcome of a game, except for game one. Iverson shot well off his regular season .814%. Put it down to fatigue or a little extra adrenaline pump.

Iverson missed 13 of 48 FTs. Shaq missed 37 of 76, and that would and could have been huge against a healthier Sixers club. That will cost Shaq and the Lakers one of these days, if he doesn't improve and it is what cost him a scoring title this year, in the playoffs, and in the final series.

Here are the top NBA scorers of all times. Expect to see Iverson on this list of players with more than 5 seasons shortly, and eventually Kobe, and some other young players. I do think that it is a tad early to count Iverson as one of the great scorers of the last 20 years, so we sort of agree on something (albeit for different reasons) which is most unbecoming two curmudgeons:

                         G     FG      FT     PTS   PPG 
1. Michael Jordan 930 10,962 6,798 29,277 31.5
2. Wilt Chamberlain 1,045 12,681 6,057 31,419 30.1
3. Shaq O'Neal 608 6,709 3,393 16,812 27.7
4. Elgin Baylor 846 8,693 5,763 23,149 27.4
5. Jerry West 932 9,016 7,160 25,192 27.0
6. Bob Pettit 792 7,349 6,182 20,880 26.4
7. George Gervin 791 8,045 4,541 20,708 26.2
8. Karl Malone 1,273 12,105 8,636 32,919 25.9
9. Oscar Robertson 1,040 9,508 7,694 26,710 25.7
10. Dominique Wilkins 1,074 9,963 6,031 26,668 24.8
11. K. Abdul-Jabbar 1,560 15,837 6,712 38,387 24.6
12. Larry Bird 897 8,591 3,960 21,791 24.3
12. Adrian Dantley 955 8,169 6,832 23,177 24.3
14. Pete Maravich 658 6,187 3,564 15,948 24.2
15. Rick Barry 794 7,252 3,818 18,395 23.2


... and as Dr. Id would be quick to point out, there is Kareem with 6,000 more career points than Karl Malone, 7,000 more than Wilt. Dr. J and Artis Gilmore are conspicuously absent from the list because ABA totals are not included.

- ce -



To: Apollo who wrote (15117)6/16/2001 3:20:57 PM
From: Eric L  Respond to of 22706
 
ca,

<< Try this stat: Lakers 12 Championships, 8 in L.A. >>

That is a good stat, I guess?

Is there some significance to it?

If they work hard, one of these decades they will top the Celtics 16 World Championships (all in Boston). I suspect Boston's 8 straight will stand for awhile.

Speaking of Boston, here is an excerpt from todays Boston Globe tribute to Shaq, and the Lakers (which talks about stats scoring & field goal percentages). Please note how they are defined:

>> To Win, O'Neal Doesn't Wilt

Peter May
Globe Staff
6/16/2001

Shaquille O'Neal is slowly, but surely, establishing himself as one of the elite centers in NBA playoff history. The Lakers giant isn't quite near Bill Russell's 11 rings, or even Luc Longley's three. He's closer to the man to whom he is most compared: the late, great Wilt Chamberlain.

Jack Ramsay, who was the general manager of the Chamberlain-led 1967 NBA champion 76ers, sees some similarities and one major difference in the two. ''Shaq would take the challenge to play Wilt,'' Ramsay said, ... ''Wilt was a funny guy. He was introspective and careful about his own reputation. Getting stats was important to Wilt. That's not important to Shaq. Winning is more important to Shaq. Shaq is a much better team player than Wilt was.''

Stats may not be as important to O'Neal, but he nonetheless is compiling numbers that are luminous. He entered last night's game as the 17th leading playoff scorer in NBA history, with a third-highest per-game average of 28.1 points. Just during this postseason, he has passed Sam Jones, Bill Russell, Patrick Ewing, and Charles Barkley on the scoring list. All played more playoff games than O'Neal's 105.

In NBA Finals history, only Rick Barry has a higher scoring average, and no one has a better field-goal percentage mark. <<

... and on the League MVP (which is more typical of Shaq than his whining about Dikembe, and also unfortunately typical for Allen):

>> Iverson is Winner of a Vote of Confidence:

O'Neal: Valuable Lesson in Humility

Peter May
Globe Staff
6/15/2001

With the Los Angeles Lakers on the verge and center Shaquille O'Neal on an apparently successful mission, a question arose yesterday: Did the media pick the wrong guy for the league's MVP award in Allen Iverson?

O'Neal, a near-unanimous (all but one vote) MVP from the year before, was third in the voting behind Iverson and Tim Duncan. The main reason: The Lakers waited until April 1 to start playing well and O'Neal took his time to get back to his customary dominating ways. Iverson did it all season and the Sixers, for much of the year, had the NBA's best record.

Asked yesterday whom he would give the award to, Iverson shrugged and said, ''Give it to me.'' He went on, ''I let you all look at the comparison and look what I've done and look what he's done. You can't take anything away from what he's done. I think it's unfair to try and take away what I've done for my team and what I've done this year.''

The ever-gracious O'Neal insisted he was not upset Iverson had won the award this year and, in fact, endorsed the selection. ''I got it last year,'' Shaq said. ''There's no need for me to be greedy. I can't win it every year. He's a great player. He deserved it. I think if he didn't deserve it, I would have said something a long time ago.'' <<

Perhaps we'll do all this again next year, if Larry Brown decides to stay on, which will influence Dikembe's staying on. Dikembe says if Larry stays he stays. Healthy Lynch, healthy McKie, could be a heck of a series.

Lots of water will flow under the dam between now and then, however.

- ce -