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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Solon who wrote (17117)	6/19/2001 3:25:54 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

You posted examples of where "the combination of legal abortion AND contraception dramatically INCREASED abortions??" I guess I don't believe you, Tim. No. You posted cases where abortion is illegal but high, I posted cases where it is legal and even higher. I'm not challangeing contraception as a factor in decreaseing abortions. Neither of us showed examples of dramatic increases or decreases in the number of abortions, we both posted about abortion rates not changes in these rates, with the singular exception of your mention that abortion rates are declineing (but still high) in Russia apparently due to increased contraceptive use. But I have inferred nothing from it. I take the face value meaning that there appears to be a statistical correlation between countries with contraception and legalized abortions, and a particular decrease in the incidence of abortion. That may be true, it also is likely true that there is a statistical correlation between countries with contraception and the color blue in their flag, and a particular decrease in the incidence of abortion. If contraceptive use decreases abortions (a claim that I find not at all dubious) then you can find a correlation between contraceptive use and X (where X can be just about anything) and a lower number of abortions. (I say lower number rather then decrease because your stats where about the abortion rate not changes in it) It may be that they keep the abortion part in the category to account for statistical variance caused by the legal abortions somewhat offsetting the effects of the contraceptives. I suspect that they put it in/keep it in because they are trying to support a pro-choice argument. "Why not just say "What is known is the contraception dramatically reduces abortion."?" Because that is not what my quoted source was stating. But I don't think your orignal statement was a quote. You didn't say "This site says 'what is known is..", you apparently drew a conclution that it is known based on the information on the site. I'll doublecheck In Message 15961110 you say "What is known is that the combination of legal abortion AND contraception dramatically reduces abortions." There is no quoteation marks or other hint that this is not your opinion. You also say "The highest abortion rates in the world are in ILLEGAL abortion countries." Which is apparently not true although you could accurately say "some countries where abortion is illegal have very high abortion rates". 1). Countries where abortions are illegal do not appear to have a significant reduction in abortion procedures (indeed, the opposite). The only information that you seem to have to base this conclution on is that some Latin American countries where abortion is illegal have high (but not the highest) abortion rates. Seems like a weak basis for your assertion. 3). If there is a benefit to keeping abortions illegal (in the minds of those whom oppose it) it is either: Now you are not just basing an opinion of fact on slim evidence but are using that opinion to make guesses about peoples opinions and motivations. The answer atleast in my case and I submit in most others is E: None of the above. More specifically it is to reduce abortion, and protect what they see as the rights of the child. IMO the number of people who want to make abortion illegal for the specific purposes of "A). To kill and hurt more women", or "B). To make sure that abortions take place at least as frequently as in those countries where abortion is legal", closely aproaches zero. Tim