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Technology Stocks : Nokia (NOK) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: carranza2 who wrote (12886)	6/20/2001 7:20:34 PM
From: Eric L	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 34857

<< Why, after suggesting that HSCSD fills in GPRS's gaps, did Nokia reduce the speed for HSCSD down to 14 kbps by inserting error correction >> It did NOT! << I think I'm correct in my thinking that if error correction is not used, as was originally envisioned for HSCSD, the data rate increases but its reliability decreases. >> You are, unfortunately, wrong on all counts (essentially). << And that, according to you and Nokia, is unacceptable. If unacceptable, how can HSCSD be ethically marketed without error correction to corporate users [buy this! It's fast!] who need error-free data transmission [sell/buy, account numbers, EKG, etc.]? >> Oi! The translation may not be the greatest, but read what it says the consequence of mofifying error correction is, and do some more homework, or listen to l ... Please. << If my understanding that data transfer rates for error-corrected HSCSD are in the 14.4 vicinity, max, is correct, what business case can be made for corporate users to be charged more for a lousy 5 kbps of increased speed? I >> Oi again. Can you multiply by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8? Can you differentiate the 2 modes of operation. How does IS-95B get to 64 kbps. can you multiply by 8. In the interim, I have a post in progress that may (?) help to explain things. You in the interim, ain't being to "rigorous". <g> - Eric -

To: carranza2 who wrote (12886)	6/20/2001 7:25:02 PM
From: 49thMIMOMander	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 34857

Carranza, you constantly mix up many things 1. channel coding is NOT an error correction (This is what Viterbi is famous for, just ask anyone who understands both channel coding and error correction) 2. error correction is done by mechanisms outside the air interface channel. (just as they are done in all fullduplex systems I am aware, where there is a return channel) 3. This error correction is the one repsonsible for zero errors. 4. The channel coder is responsible for a low enough error rate for the error correction protocol to be efficient. 5. HSCDS includes all those channel coders and corresponding circuit switched bit rates. (just like cars inlude gears) 6. The error correction must be end-to-end to ensure zero errors, not in here and there in the total transmission path. (bit errors can occure outside the air channel, in the interfaces to different networks, backbones, even in things like windows drivers, buffer over, under runs, lost data, etc,etc) 7. HSCDS was originally envisioned with all those channel coders and even more As you constantly mix these two things, channel coding and error correction, your conclusions are also wrong. In your "business case" for HSCDS you also constantly disregard the most important factor, the multislot capability, your third major error. Ilmarinen You are like a dog with two different bones and you do not know which one you are talking about, although the bones are totally different and one isn't even a bone. Additionally you constantly forget that there are 8 times more lanes on the road, of which 3-4-6 easily can be used, especially to achieve high burst rates. (you are maybe familiar with 2x64kbps ISDN with 64 or 128kbps speeds) 8. Just to be sure, for packet networks the issue of error correction is slightly different, but not the (basic) issue of channel coding, which is the same. (I'm sure one can make some optimization of channel coding to make it slightly better for packet transmission)