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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: Lane3 who wrote (17604)	6/30/2001 2:19:59 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

>What about the assumptions of moral relativism? Now that's whacked! It starts with the unwarranted assumption that God does not exist.< Perhaps Greg is starting with the proposition that the only possible God is his God. In that case you couldn't have moral relativism because that really doesn't square with the rather bureaucratic and (in general) highly authoritarian religions generated by the Christian Bible. The Bible has it's own code of morality, and it isn't a bit relative- except in the sense that the way Christians practice morality and square it with the Bible has changed quite a bit from time to time. So even though they won't admit morality is relative, in practice it certainly is. That said there are certainly countless Gods one can imagine that would work perfectly nicely with relativism. But Greg may not be open minded enough to be able to imagine them.

To: Lane3 who wrote (17604)	6/30/2001 3:12:44 PM
From: Greg or e	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

As usual your post was thoughtful and gracious. I appreciate that about you. I consider myself to be open minded in the sense that you described. "listening actively to other ideas with a willingness to change one's belief based on sufficient cause." I have come to some conclusions about God and the Bible, and I live my life based on that. "I don't find it conclusive or even likely. So what do we do with that?" Well, we continue to talk in a respectful and courteous manner and who knows? One thing is that, eventually we are all going to die, and then the rubber meets the road. At that point my faith in a risen Savior will either be vindicated or repudiated. I just spent the last two hours listening and reasoning with two JW's who came to my door. Nice people, very dedicated, but wrong on the facts of who Jesus was and what He did. I don't slam the door in their faces, but I'm not so open minded that my brains fall out either. "Well, if I acknowledge and accept you and your belief, and I do, that's tolerance. If I'm willing to revisit my conclusion if presented with new information, and I am, then I'm open minded." I think we can acknowledge and accept each other as persons, worthy of respect without agreeing that all ideas are equally valid or true. We may in fact BOTH BE WRONG, but we cannot both be right if we hold diametrically opposing views about the same things. If that is what tolerance means then I am intolerant. Someone said "Tolerance when it comes to relationships is a virtue, but tolerance when it comes to truth is a travesty" "Are you tolerant of other perspectives?" I like to think I am but others might disagree. I like the majority of people on this thread and I find the conversations interesting. Am I open minded? I think I answered that. As far as my religion requiring a closed mind, I disagree. It requires a settled mind, and an active faith the responds to truth, once arrived at. "You can believe in God and still be a moral relativist," Not if your thinking is consistent, you can't. I suppose it depends on your concept of God "But I don't see that it's any more logical that some entity external to the universe created it than that it was created spontaneously. Both require a tip of the hat to something before or beyond the universe. I can't comprehend either." I'd like to give you an opportunity to re examine that for a bit and see if you still agree with it. Start with something, anything, that exists now, and work your way back. There aren't that many alternatives.