Silicon Investor (SI) -- The First Internet Community

STOCKTALK

We've detected that you're using an ad content blocking browser plug-in or feature. Ads provide a critical source of revenue to the continued operation of Silicon Investor. We ask that you disable ad blocking while on Silicon Investor in the best interests of our community. If you are not using an ad blocker but are still receiving this message, make sure your browser's tracking protection is set to the 'standard' level.

Technology Stocks : Nokia (NOK) -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: mightylakers who wrote (13460)	7/9/2001 3:40:54 PM
From: Eric L	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 34857

Lakers, << Do you recall the signing of scores of contracts for 1x before Korea rolling out their networks? All they said was that at xx time they will do 1x etc etc. >> Scores, heck no. Scores haven't even committed to 1xRTT. I count 12 contracted and 3 trials. Maybe that’s a gaggle. Contracts to Samsung and el foldo Hyundai, absolutely yes. They were signed Q1 and or Q2 2000, and if you subscribe the right pubs you can find record of them, and their value. Meantime here is the initial SKT release: 3com.com.au The KTF Hyundai deal with KTF was announced late August or early September 2001 if I recall. Perhaps it was earlier. KDDI announced their 1xRTT contract with Motorola for an upgrade to their 800 MHz network on October 17th 2000. Please show me similar for 1xEV-DO. I have not seen any. << Isn't the same thing happening now? >> Are there any contracts, and if so are they for trials or commercial buildouts? << And now we have MSM5500 to back it up. >> Yes. Good. Do you expect any carrier to do a full scale commercial rollout with an MSM5500 on any scale? None of that fuzzy "commercial launch" stuff, please. Perhaps phrased differently, do you look at the MSM5500 as the real McCoy, and a device/handset chip that anyone will deploy on a widespread commercial basis? << Remember once a time you were shouting the same thing about 1x handsets. And all the sudden from nowhere we are seeing 11 some different 1x phones. >> I certainly do. I did that. That was back when Jacobs, Jacobs, Sulpizio, and LaForge, were saying "3G" is available NOW, and we had 1 handset (SKY IM-2300) in 20,000 quantity (eventually) for the 1st 4 months by SK powered by a non-3G by anyone's stretch of anyone's imagination, MSM5000 that was probably operating in IS-95B mode for the most part at that time. << See the pattern here? >> Yes I do. Do you? <g> << The biggest difference between Qcom and others is that Q don't sell vaporware. >> Well, when Motorola announced the KDDI contract, 1xRTT was a tad vaporous wouldn't you say? Qualcomm has my permission to get a signature for vapor on a formal contract at any time. And somebody was trying to sell somebody that the MSM5000 "Trial Platform" was 3G. Now your not gonna try to do that to me are you? << For some reasons, the Koreans are not "hyping up" their 1x networks. >> And for that I give them credit. They should be proud of what they have accomplished, of their 400,000 subs, their objective to have 3 million subs by end of year, and I expect that by end of year they will solve their handover problem, relatively completely stabilize their networks, and early next year move on to the MSM5100, and some differentiating services. << Now I want to see whether SKT can have HDR up and running at world cup or not. >> I don't see any reason why they can't. I'm betting on it. Maybe KTF as well. Minister Yang will not be happy if his "uneven level playing field" is still even. Korea has been a marvelous test bed for CDMA. Their carriers and vendors have been willing to act as early adopters and take CDMA products through commercialization. In any situation like this, I am always concerned that the network, even if deployed on a small scale, be sufficiently stable to successfully support a highly visible implementation like the World Cup will be. This will be great exposure for 1xEV-DO - hopefully it goes well. << If they do then they can not keep the good news under the lid anymore. >> I'm an investor. When we start shipping MSM5500's (or more likely MSM6500's, unless we invent an MSM5505, by the millions, and when I say millions, I mean millions, then we can hoist a cold one together - maybe two or three cold ones. <g> << And then we saw Koreans keep on whining about the royalty they paid to Qcom. >> Now that is another interesting story. As I say, I'm very pleased to see the MSM5500 out the door and sampling. Rome was not built in a day. - Eric -

To: mightylakers who wrote (13460)	7/9/2001 3:49:58 PM
From: Eric L	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 34857

re: 1XEV-DO & MSM5500/CSM5500 << The biggest difference between Qcom and others is that Q don't sell vaporware. >> It appears that they have been unable to. 1xEV-DV anyone? >> Qualcomm Makes Slow Progress with CDMA2000 1XEV-DO Technology Wireless Internet Issue 30 05 July 2001 mmwirelessinternet.com Qualcomm's campaign to persuade operators to adopt its version of third-generation technology rather than the rival W-CDMA appears to be making little headway. While the company claims that five operators are planning to use its high data rate 3G technology, CDMA2000 1XEV-DO, none of these has yet announced a contract for equipment. As a result, Qualcomm is unable to produce any more than approximate deployment dates - and in some cases not even that. This is despite Qualcomm's claim that EV-DO, which offers transmission speeds of up to 2.4Mbit/sec, will be available sometime next year. W-CDMA, it says, will not be available until 2003 or 2004. In contrast 48 operators in western Europe alone have already awarded contracts to W-CDMA vendors. Moreover, there are significant question marks over most of the five companies in the Qualcomm list - Korean operators SK Telecom and KT Freetel, American giants Sprint PCS and Verizon Wireless and Japanese operator KDDI. While SK Telecom and KT Freetel are both using second-generation CDMAOne technology, and have implemented the higher-speed CDMA200 1XRTT, which offers speeds of up to 144kbit/sec, both made it clear some time ago that they would be moving to W-CDMA. This was why they bought 3G licences which gave them a free choice of technology. The Korean government has had great difficulty in finding a suitable buyer for the third licence, which requires the use of EV-DO technology (For related story, click here). Qualcomm admits that the Koreans have chosen to use W-CDMA but appears reluctant to discuss how EV-DO will fit into this plan. All it says is that the carriers' deployment of W-CDMA has been delayed and that in the meantime "they will focus on growing their 1X networks." Verizon Wireless, meanwhile, has recently confirmed that it is also considering using W-CDMA. This follows pressure from 45-per-cent shareholder Vodafone, which is migrating its wholly-owned operations to W-CDMA. Verizon chief executive officer Dennis Strigl said last week that Verizon and Vodafone would be working closely together to enable roaming between their two networks. He added that this involved talking to unnamed equipment vendors to find a solution. But it is hard to see how this situation will be resolved, short of Verizon deploying a W-CDMA network. This leaves only Sprint PCS and KDDI looking like firm members of the EV-DO camp. Qualcomm says it expects KDDI to deploy in the second half of 2002 and Sprint in the second half of 2003. Even if Qualcomm's claim that these five users are committed to EV-DO does prove to be correct, this would represent something of a poor return, given the number of operators which might have been expected to follow the CDMA2000 migration path. Operators which use CDMAOne technology have been expected to upgrade to 1XRTT as a stepping stone and then to EV-DO. Similarly, GSM operators will migrate through GPRS and possibly EDGE to reach W-CDMA. Operators using alternative technologies, such as TDMA or iDen, have been expected to migrate towards either of the two 3G alternatives W-CDMA or EV-DO. But while those GSM operators deploying GPRS have so far all said they will continue on the same path and go on to W-CDMA, the position looks less clear in the CDMA camp. Qualcomm's list of five EV-DO users constitutes less than half of the operators thinking of using 1XRTT. The CDMA Development Group (CDG), an industry body dedicated to promoting CDMA technology, lists 13 operators which are trialling 1XRTT or intend to do so. Qualcomm says the figure will be higher as the CDG's figure counts only those operators which have publicly announced 1XRTT trials. It expects all the current CDMAOne operators to upgrade to 1XRTT as this provides a near doubling of network capacity on much the same software and chipset architecture as CDMAOne. This much is not in any real doubt, but it is at the next stage of the migration that Qualcomm seems to be losing out. The wavering of Verizon, one of the largest US carriers, could have repercussions for Qualcomm's technology in the South American market, where operators have historically followed the lead of the big US companies. Most carriers in South America currently use either CDMAOne or TDMA, as in the US. The TDMA operators are being heavily wooed by the CDMA world. A recent CDG report, for instance, argued that the CDMA migration path could be more advantageous for them than W-CDMA. But one of the advantages that the report specified rests upon the assumption that Qualcomm would develop a dual-mode TDMA/CDMA chipset. But Qualcomm appears to be backing away from this position. When asked if it intended developing a TDMA/CDMA chip, the company told Wireless Internet that it has committed its resources to GSM/CDMA chips. If Qualcomm is indeed shelving the development of a dual-mode TDMA/CDMA chipset then TDMA carriers will be forced to offer dual-mode handsets to enable roaming on their legacy networks. Avoiding this scenario was seen by the CDG report as a big economic advantage of a CDMA migration path. One recent event which points to an erosion of the South America CDMA market was the decision by Telemar, a Brazilian fixed line carrier that bought spectrum and intends to begin offering cellular services next year, to deploy a GSM/GPRS network. This implies a migration to W-CDMA in the future. Meanwhile Telecom New Zealand, which is launching a 1XRTT service in its home territory in the fourth quarter of this year, says its migration path will be influenced by its links with Hutchinson Telecom Australia, with which it has signed a deal to share development costs. Hutchinson is to deploy a W-CDMA network. One option open to Qualcomm, which it has not ruled out, is to buy spectrum and run its own network using CDMA technology. It has already used this strategy in Australia to establish a service that will use EV-DO technology. The company would neither confirm nor deny that it was considering joining the LG-led consortium that is poised to buy the third 3G licence in South Korea which mandates the use of CDMA2000 technology. << - Eric -

To: mightylakers who wrote (13460)	7/9/2001 4:11:03 PM
From: Eric L	Respond to of 34857

re: "real life" 3G This is sort of like those "real life" FUs running around in between those 2 base stations in Korea with their HDR Hornet's last spring. Look, Siemens has vaporware contracts from 17 carriers. Original 2002 launch dates have been put back to 2003-4 Contracts for 1xEV-DO? We need em. Not much royalty flow from WCDMA. >> NEC, Siemens Claim "real life" 3G Tests Emily Bourne Total Telecom 09 July 2001 Germany's Siemens and its 3G infrastructure partner, NEC, claim seven operators have successfully tested voice calls under "real life conditions" over 3G networks provided by the partnership. A spokeswoman for the German vendor explained that this refers to "over the air" calls using prototype handsets. "We had devices that look like mobile phones," she said. "Often [3G tests] use two base stations that are communicating with each other." The tests were conducted in Germany by T-Mobil and D2 Vodafone, in Austria by T-Mobil and max.mobil, in Monaco by Cegetel, and in Italy and Finland by unnamed operators. The prototype handsets were provided by NEC. In addition, a trial video call was conducted by BT's Manx Telecom on the Isle of Man, transmitting pictures from handset to handset. Manx Telecom planned to be the first in the world to commercially launch 3G, but has delayed the launch to late summer. "With these test runs completed successfully UMTS/3G has left behind the lab trial phase and proven reliable under real life conditions," claimed Lothar Pauly, member of the board of Siemens IC Mobile. "With the market being hit so much, to be able to say an infrastructure supplier has provided a network that works with a prototype terminal is good news," commented Jason Chapman, a senior Gartner analyst. However, he warned, it is crucial to demonstrate actual mobility rather than just a live connection between handsets. Manx Telecom, for instance has had problems with the handover from one base station to another and from one controller to another, said Chapman. "As long as you stay within a single base station coverage area, it seems to be up and running, [but if you move out of the range of that station, the call cuts out]," he explained. Chapman said the operators' priority at the moment is "making sure GPRS is running," and their number two priority is to get handsets working. "The window for GPRS is increasing," he added. Original 2002 launch dates have been put back to 2003-4. "Having GPRS means the whole market can experiment and educate themselves before the launch of 3G, when they can't afford to make errors," he said. The seven voice trials may not seem to be important, seeing as the key to 3G will be the take-up of high data rate services, but getting packetized voice to work is critical, said Chapman. "Voice is not necessarily a sexy service, but to make sure that a connection exists is critical for video-streaming and real-time applications." Siemens and NEC have signed 3G infrastructure contracts with 17 operators (most 3G contracts are multi-vendor). These operators are: Austria: max.mobil Denmark: Telia Finland: Radiolinja, Telia Germany: D2 Vodafone, T-Mobil France: Cegetel/SFR Isle of Man: Manx Telecom Italy: TIM, H3G Monaco: Monaco Telecom Norway: NetCom Portugal: ONI Way, TMN Spain: Amena United Kingdom: Hutchison, One2One. << - Eric -