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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: thames_sider who wrote (18307)	7/21/2001 2:14:18 PM
From: jlallen	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

First all Bush has only been in office six months, following a very abbreviated transition period. But I happen to believe that all indications are that he is strong in all the categories where you allegedly find him wanting and very importantly, he is a person who can be respected as a person unlike his predecessor and his opponent in the last election. Overall, I'd say, we definitely traded up... JLA

To: thames_sider who wrote (18307)	7/21/2001 7:10:40 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

Gimme a break! Why does Clinton keep coming up? Because he was the last Democratic President and he seems to be considered an excellent Presidentr by many on this thread. CHARACTER did you say? You compare Clinton and Bush on CHARACTER???? ROTFLMAO!!!! As I said, GIMME A BREAK! How many young women has Bush molested? Foreign Policy? How much Foreign Policy experience did the GOVERNOR OF ARKANSAS acquire??? Clinton had 8 years as President to acquire that foreign policy experience you so admire. Bush has been in office 6 MONTHS. So the Europeans are upset at him for dumping a treaty NOT ONE OF THEM HAS RATIFIED? SO? If the Europeans love that treaty so much WHY DIDN'T THEY RATIFY IT??? Has it occurred to you that Kyoto may be fatally flawed? (not necessarily agreement - but understanding) I'd say he understands perfectly. Foreign Policy? How about that genius Governor of Georgia James Carter? Not only did he know nothing about it, HE DIDN'T LEARN ANYHTING! Foreign Policy? The most knowledgeable on en entering office was undoubtedly Richard Nixon. What's your opinion of him? contributions to party coffers or sheer length of service You bring this up with respect to Clinton-Gore????? GIMME A BREAK! capacity for independent thought. Great sloganeering. Clinton had a different set of vested interests pushing him. He was quite subservient to them. And he wasn't particularly independent of corporate interests. Remember Bernie Schwartz? Honesty in negotiation: diplomacy: patience: resilience: a sense of what is appropriate, and when: charisma: political balance and objectivity (rather than, my side is always right): and so forth... Justify these with respect to Clinton. And then explain why it is evident Bush is lacking. I don't claim Clinton was perfect on all* the above* Damn right he wasn't! Not by a country mile! unless you seriously look to him as a personal role model... did you? (Did many??) I doubt it. Anyone who takes Clinton as a personal role model belongs in jail. And soon will be. Hmmmm.... Maybe Condidit does. I do believe that Bush is rather conspicuously lacking in nearly all the above. That's your opinion. You're wrong. Bush did an excellent job of handling the Chinese- -US spy plane incident. Agreed? And I'm not particularly disturbed that the Europeans are upset by Kyoto. If they want a treaty like that ratified by us, they can go back and write a fair and reasonable treaty. Good name, BTW - Heinlein-inspired, I presume? did you change the spelling, or do I misremember? Thank you. Yes, with credit also to Jorj X. McKie (his is from the "Dune" series). I didn't check the spelling and I misremembered it.

To: thames_sider who wrote (18307)	7/22/2001 12:44:26 PM
From: Lazarus_Long	Respond to of 82486

A lot of people think Bush is qualified just fine: www0.mercurycenter.com Published Sunday, July 22, 2001, in the San Jose Mercury News BUSH REMAINS POPULAR, DESPITE NATION'S TURMOIL BY STEVEN THOMMA Mercury News Washington Bureau BOSTON -- The economy is faltering, his agenda is stalled and even fellow Republicans are rebelling against some of his ideas, like where to drill for oil. Yet President Bush remains politically popular, thanks mainly to the respect people have for his personal values. Just as Ronald Reagan's sunny personality seemed to deflect political criticism, Bush has what one Democratic strategist calls a ``values shield'' that gives him similar protection. ``Why hasn't Bush fallen more in the polls?'' asked Democratic pollster Mark Penn at a recent Indianapolis conference of the Democratic Leadership Council, a group of party moderates. The president maintains support from a majority of Americans -- between 50 percent and 60 percent in most polls -- at a time when layoffs are spreading and the stock market is stumbling, conditions that normally drive down presidential popularity. Perceived values The answer, Penn's polls show, is that people like Bush. They think he's decent and honest, and they believe he shares their moral values. Bush and his party are working hard to capitalize on his values edge. Republican research shows that Bush's personal beliefs are helping his party attract swing voters, such as suburban women. In a GOP strategy meeting in Boston last week, White House aides and political advisers went to great lengths to polish Bush's image as caring, honest and pro-family. In a luncheon address to the Republican National Committee, White House adviser Mary Matalin talked as much about Bush's personal qualities as his policies. She stressed Bush's devotion to family, noting that he insists that mothers working in the White House must be allowed to leave work early enough to spend time with their children. Four swing states Bush won 53 percent of the men's vote last year, but only 43 percent of women. If he could increase his support among women by just one percentage point in four close states -- Iowa, New Mexico, Oregon and Wisconsin -- he would pick up another 29 electoral votes in 2004. Republicans hope that Bush's policies can reinforce this kind of appeal. His tax cut plan includes tax breaks to help women pay for child care and families to pay for education. Similarly, GOP strategists are betting that his initiative to provide government help to religious charities that provide social services, which the House of Representatives approved Thursday, will impress not only Catholics but also African-Americans, many of whom are devoted to churches but not to the Republican Party. Values vs. economy Democrats are increasingly frustrated by Bush's political immunity to the nation's slowdown. The problem, Penn said, is that ``values trump the economy.'' Asked which is a bigger problem, Americans chose the moral fabric of the country over the economy by 60 percent to 36 percent. Asked who shares their values, Americans chose Bush over the Democrats by 51 percent to 39 percent, according to Penn's survey. Asked who is honest, they chose Bush by 52 percent to Democrats' 22 percent. And asked which better promotes moral values, they chose Bush over Democrats by 66 percent to 24 percent. Yet in the competition over moral values, some Democrats concede that their party gave away the advantage to Bush and the Republicans. ``Our party too often has fallen short by either being too reticent or too reluctant to draw lines between right and wrong,'' said Sen. Joseph Lieberman, D-Conn., the party's vice presidential nominee last year and a possible presidential candidate in 2004. Maybe "qualifications" needs to be a bit broader than you thought. Oh, and these aren't paper qualifications. They have to do with that word you used- -"CHARACTER"!