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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?


To: Solon who wrote (18697)7/19/2001 12:34:17 PM
From: TimF  Respond to of 82486
 
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Am I to understand by your confusion that you don't have any idea of the
concepts I am trying to communicate to you when I speak about "potential?"

>>>

There is no confusion that you could use as a basis to understand anything. If by "having any idea of the concepts I am trying to communicate to you when I speak about potential" you mean do I understand the definition of potential, then any understanding that I don't have or didn't have any idea of these concepts would be incorrect.

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The possibility of a human being born is not significantly different between the actual moment of conception, and the nanosecond before conception.
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Maybe but that doesn't mean that conception is not a significant change. The nature of the ova is changed when it is fertilized, whether or not the possibility for it to turn into a fully developed turn in to a fully devloped human has significantly changed from what it was the nanosecond before. A nanosecond before fertilization there is an enormous possibility that the egg will be fertilized, a nano-second after it has become a different thing then it was before and now contains the potential to develop into a full human within itself.

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Are you not aware that a fertilized egg is more than a potential homo sapiens--that it is potentially anything? Approximately 75 % of the time it will spontaneously abort, and it will combine with other substances to become other things.
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If there is a 75% chance that you will soon die, it would still be wrong for me to kill you. The fertilized human egg is a homo sapiens in its most undevloped state. It's posibility for survival to a ripe old age is at this point low but that fact that it might soon die doesn't mean it is ok to kill it.

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But your opposition to abortion is not based on supernatural beliefs in God or ensoulment. Your belief is that the fertilized egg has a "potential" which overrides the RIGHTS of the mother.
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No. My belief is that the fertilized egg is actually not just potentially a homo sapiens. It has a potential to later be born and to think and talk and have children, but even if it does not furfil this potential it is a human while it still lives.

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You believe that you have an interest in her body, and that your interest in the potential of the human DNA she carries trumps her interest in the potential of her own life, and in her ownership of her organs.
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No. I believe that I have an interest in trying to protect innocent humans, includeing the one within her body. (Which by the time she would have an abortion would no longer be a fertilized egg but rather a fetus). The fetus is not part of her own body, or one of her organs. It is dependent on her body, is is sorrounded by her body, but it is not her body or part of it.

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I don't understand on what basis you would oppose, say, rape then. I am easily strong enough to forcibly impregnate a woman and thus cause my sperm to potentiate toward the making of a human being. Any argument that my sperm was not potentially human could be easily disproved in 9 months.
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Rape is not the protection of a human life. It is an attack against a person and in some cases endangers a human life. Your sperm can cause a human to be created but they are not actually humans.

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You don't believe in souls so on what basis do you arbitrarily decide that conception is a good point for you to play police officer with a woman's body? There is nothing magical about conception for those not holding out the supernatural belief in souls.
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I didn't say I don't believe in souls, but rather that I don't base my opposition to abortion on a belief in souls. My belief in souls is much weaker and more uncertain then my oposition to abortion.
Conception is the moment when you have a seperate human organism rather then cells from two different organisms that could at some point combine and make a human organism.

Tim