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To: marcos who wrote (6179)7/23/2001 6:57:58 PM
From: Maurice Winn  Respond to of 74559
 
Marcos, when I first read the Aztec comments you wrote, I thought, "Heck, that looks very familiar - must be conversion of Aztec to the way British would write it", which is like Romanji in Japanese or Maori using English letters [for those who don't know, there was no written Maori language - the writing was invented by the British after listening carefully to pronunciation].

There aren't any Aztecs going to show up because the ones I meant have been dead for centuries. Gold is for those Aztecs - and modern equivalents. It is a bad thing to be an Aztec and that's why nearly everyone other than Herman the Hermit chooses to enjoy the modern accoutrements of human creativity and productivity. It was bad to be an Aztec not only because of the backward economy and way of life they suffered, [though like the ham sandwich maker and the coffee maker before the smart young guy came along with a coin, it was probably very nice on most days] but also because they were murdered by Spanish barbarians who lived a cannibal life [consuming the property of others rather than inventing and producing something themselves].

My theory [which I've just made up] on "advanced language" which you say the Aztecs had, is that languages are a function of the intelligence of the people who use the languages. They create and use advanced languages because they have intelligence. You can tell computers are still really stupid by asking them a simple question.

In defence of melting down the Aztec gold, the value to the Aztecs of the works of art, their symbolism and importance in the Aztec culture was very little. They were taking over in a barbaric, violent way, not by way of a civilized chequebook on a voluntary basis. So why should they care about the symbols of the useless [to the Spanish] Aztec people and their culture? The Spaniards just wanted the gold to save them having to dig some up. The gold had greater value as coins, which is just as valid a way of using gold as making baubles. In as much as money is quite a beautiful human creation in its own right [the concept rather than the form of the coins], it's better to upgrade the gold to represent a higher value and thing of beauty than simple decorative baubles.

Money is a bit like music, an intangible abstract concept which is exquisitely intricate and provides a tangible means of expressing human emotions and drives. Gold baubles are more like a bower bird's collection [albeit with some artisan skills and creativity applied]. Jay is the first person I've seen to link money and music with his expression 'listening to the music of the markets'. I was quite taken by that idea, for that's what the markets are. At the moment [I just remembered somebody else made the music analogy, though a simple one, and I suppose it's an old idea really] the markets are like an oboe of doom. Message 14535410
< Consider the Oboe (forget Banshees, Vampires, Mummies and all things deadly as when they arrive, the Oboe is at its loudest)... The Oboe is an instrument (IMHO) of impending doom, a foreshadowing of deadly things to come. I hate the Oboe more than any other instrument on earth as its sound is the birth of fear. Yet, when apathy runs the electronic wires of this media, one does not need multimedia speakers to hear the oboe, as its chorus takes root in the thinking process. One leaves the terminal with doubt, impending doom, and must rejuvenate by means of silencing the oboe. It is very difficult, even for those who (as I do) clearly see the cup as half full.>

In the same way that old-time bauble-loving Aztecs were defeated by the Spaniards with their love of money and destructive cannibalistic values, modern day Aztecs who are holding gold [in boring ingot and coin form] as old-style Spanish money will be defeated by the new fiat money abstractions of the infotech world [and its industrial age foundations].

So I suppose you are right that '16th Century Spanish' is a better fit than 'Aztecs', but the Spanish did actually use the gold as transactable money whereas the Aztecs hoarded it as value in its own right, with added value by artisanship. Also, 'Aztecs' sounds better than a bunch of barbarians. I wouldn't want to call Jay and co barbarians. I think they are more like primitive Aztecs. They aren't looting and plundering, murdering and pillaging.

PayPal can't function unless the users have confidence. The company running PayPal can't have whims. They have to operate a very solid currency. No room for whimsy. "Real" doesn't only exist in material objects like gold. Concepts are just as real. Confidence and trust are concepts which are extremely valuable. If a company forms a currency in which people trust [the USA one has "In God We Trust" written on it, which doesn't give me a lot of confidence], that is a thing of true beauty. Barbarians would not be able to destroy it, steal it or disrupt it. An example of something intangible but which is very real is a mother's love for her children.

Try skooshing a mother's beloved child in front of her and see what you get. The relationship is very real. More real than everything material. The material objects are only brought into reality because of the reality of the mother's love. There are plenty of other extremely robust, real, abstract things which exist.

The great weakness of government money is that it is Spanish in its creation. It is formed by force and confiscation - taxation, fear of government attack, restriction on competition [a far greater and more dangerous monopoly than the trivial monopoloy of Microsoft]. Government money is inflated and confiscated. The users of the government money are abused in many ways. A fiat money of PayPal depends totally on the goodwill and appreciation of those who use the money. PayPal can't attack, confiscate, jail or otherwise maltreat people. They must operate in a voluntary realm, unlike governments, which operate in a 16th century Spanish way.

Speaking of language <One of the most glaring barbarities the mexica noticed among their pakeha du jour> it's interesting that you used three [maybe four] languages in a few words:
pakeha = Maori
du jour = French
some English
mexica = Spanish?

English has cannibalized many languages as it becomes the lingua franca. In an infinitely complex world, the language becomes infinitely complex too.

Well, that's my 'he pai me te koura' rant for the day!

Mqurice