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Politics : Sharks in the Septic Tank -- Ignore unavailable to you. Want to Upgrade?

To: 2MAR$ who wrote (19082)	7/23/2001 9:58:17 PM
From: epicure	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

I think Twofers line is the "a person is a person no matter how small and unpersonlike" argument. If we called every clump of two cells a person you just KNOW the next fight would be over preventing the dear little egg and sperm (or those two "halves" of a person) from uniting in holy ...whatever. Someone is always going to be unhappy.

To: 2MAR$ who wrote (19082)	7/24/2001 12:14:41 PM
From: TimF	Read Replies (1) \| Respond to of 82486

The fetus being a human being at these early stages of undifferentiated cells , is just ---->religious grandstanding . It is a living organism, at conception it becomes a distinct new organism for the first time. That organism is not a rose or a pig or a maple tree, it is a homo sapiens at its earliest part of its development. You are of course free to disagree with this reasoning but it is not grandstanding and it is not based on religion. There was a time TW , when young men were dying in wars in Indo China on both sides as soldiers and many more as just villagers... There was mass murder in Cambodia... South America and Africa... ------->and where was the deep & sacred concern for : the saving of human life , then ? You think there was no concern? Or we assumed the false implication that there was no concern was in fact true, all your reasoning does is support the idea that people should have been concerned about those deaths not that we should not be concerned about the deaths of the unborn. I know it was a little before your time, but not so long ago TW . I was alive during the Vietnam war but I don't remember any of it. I have studied it both formally (in a history class and informally (talking to people who where involved, reading books and magazine articles and webpages). A friend of mine who is 5 months younger then me does remember it. I think he had relatives over there plus he was interested in news and politics at an unusually young age. but I can remember Billy Graham ,The Pat Robertsons , the Jimmy Swaggarts, the fat-jowled & smug Jerry Falwells, the Jim & Tammy Faye Bakers and all the other "God Fearing" folk , actively crying out for more "Just and Honorable " --->WAR.... The defence of South Vietnam from invasion and subversion from the North was a just and honorable idea. The South Vietnamese government itself however was not particuarly just or honorable, but it was still preferable to that of the North. again I would ask you TW ,where was the deep & sacred concern for : the saving of human life ...& the living, then ? There was plenty of concern for human life, although obviously not everyone was all that concerned and some of the people who where you might say had a misguided concern. But maybe you should ask the communists where there concern for life was. They where the attackers in the war, and eventually captured the South through a conventional invasion after we left. Before that happened they took some time to do things like saigon.com nufronliv.org vietquoc.com PS: The debate sort of ends here , and goes back some 55 exchanges ....you did not make me into a believer . Actually there is another post after that but you got close to the end. I would hardly expect to make you a believer of anything in particular through a post on an internet BBS. Debates like these rarely change minds on controversial issues, although I might hold at some hope that someone's opinion may change in response to my posts I don't actually expect it to happen. Tim